[WRC] News & rumours (part III)

[Rallyper]

technically speaking yes there is not a contradiction since cornering speed is dependent on traction, but in real life terms when you have 2 corners close to each other the car must have enough power to reach the limit of traction speed.

Average Joe wouldn´t notice anyway. He just want rallycars to be more spectacular than today obviously.

[makinen_fan]

This is the reason today's cars look too perfect and can go so fast effortlessly. Too much traction and not enough power.

[rallyfiend]

This is the reason today's cars look too perfect and can go so fast effortlessly. Too much traction and not enough power.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-eF_fc4n7M

this clip would beg to differ....

[Mirek]

technically speaking yes there is not a contradiction since cornering speed is dependent on traction, but in real life terms when you have 2 corners close to each other the car must have enough power to reach the limit of traction speed.

Sorry, but You didn't get what does cornering speed mean. Cornering speed doesn't depend on power (unless the car needs power slide to turn but let's say it behaves perfectly neutral) and it doesn't depend on traction either. The thing Lundefaret speaks about is lateral acceleration which the car can take in the corner. That depends on many factors, mainly weight of the car, center of gravity position, lateral tyre grip level (depending also on tyre sidewall stiffness), suspension setup (mainly rollbars) etc.

It's very easily possible to have much more powerful car which is much slower in corners, e.g. Audi Qattro may have double power compared to Fiesta WRC but in the corner it is way slower (must slow down much more before the apex). The cornering speed is what changed dramatically through the years.

[N.O.T]

Sorry, but You didn't get what does cornering speed mean. Cornering speed doesn't depend on power (unless the car needs power slide to turn but let's say it behaves perfectly neutral) and it doesn't depend on traction either. The thing Lundefaret speaks about is lateral acceleration which the car can take in the corner. That depends on many factors, mainly radius of the corner, weight of the car, center of gravity position, lateral tyre grip level (depending also on tyre sidewall stiffness), suspension setup (mainly rollbars) etc.

It's very easily possible to have much more powerful car which is much slower in corners, e.g. Audi Qattro may have double power compared to Fiesta WRC but in the corner it is way slower (must slow down much more before the apex). The cornering speed is what changed dramatically through the years.

cornering speed depends on how much all of the above "blah blah blah look at me how shiny i am" you posted can the tyre take before is starts sliding...

[makinen_fan]

Sorry, but You didn't get what does cornering speed mean. Cornering speed doesn't depend on power (unless the car needs power slide to turn but let's say it behaves perfectly neutral) and it doesn't depend on traction either. The thing Lundefaret speaks about is lateral acceleration which the car can take in the corner. That depends on many factors, mainly radius of the corner, weight of the car, center of gravity position, lateral tyre grip level (depending also on tyre sidewall stiffness), suspension setup (mainly rollbars) etc.

It's very easily possible to have much more powerful car which is much slower in corners, e.g. Audi Qattro may have double power compared to Fiesta WRC but in the corner it is way slower (must slow down much more before the apex). The cornering speed is what changed dramatically through the years.

This is correct, but only for the apex speed that the car can carry in a corner. For the part of a turn after the apex, when the driver applies throttle to accelerate away, you can have two situations. Either traction limited or power limited. For sure for certain corners more power will result to higher corner exit speed (i.e. faster overall corner speed), but in other corners it will have no influence.

[Mirek]

cornering speed depends on how much all of the above "blah blah blah look at me how shiny i am" you posted can the tyre take before is starts sliding...

Actually not. Again same example. Put Michelin Pilot Sport WRC SS2 on Audi Quattro and try to reach same speed in the corner as with Fiesta WRC. You will end on a speed 20 km/h lower or something like that. Or put those same tyres on a stock VW Multivan and try again

Lateral acceleration which the tyre can ideally take is of course same in all cases but the thing is that the real conditions are never same as those ideal laboratory ones and it's the car what makes them different. Therefore even if You have the very same corner and the very same tyres never two different cars can reach absolutely same speed (even if they have same weight).

This is correct, but only for the apex speed that the car can carry in a corner. For the part of a turn after the apex, when the driver applies throttle to accelerate away, you can have two situations. Either traction limited or power limited. For sure for certain corners more power will result to higher corner exit speed (i.e. faster overall corner speed), but in other corners it will have no influence.

Cornering speed is not a corner exit speed. Imagine that as a speed on a fixed diameter circle.

[N.O.T]

actually yes... you are just using more words for it... and if you are a physicist i can relate to you trying to explain things using a more accurate description... if you are not you are just a smartass trying to explain things in acomplicated way yourself cannot even grasp completely.

[makinen_fan]

Cornering speed is not a corner exit speed. Imagine that as a speed on a fixed diameter circle.

I know, but this it the theoretical ideal situation that never happens in reality.
But then you can have a situation like this that an underpowered car cannot utilise all of its traction, (because you need power to keep a constant speed around a circle, consider the velocity vector of car turning) if the constant radius circle is large enough... so power does matter

[stefanvv]

You're talking about tarmac stages on Cyprus kind of show, aren't You? Well, I prefer fast tarmac cars anyway, but that's only me.