Rally Discussion and Bar Talk Thread

**dimviii** · 17th April 2020, 09:21

Originally Posted by AnttiL

Tand put up a whole department in the factory for developing the rally car, to use it as a marketing tool.

same did citroen.

**AnttiL** · 17th April 2020, 09:38

Originally Posted by dimviii

same did citroen.

and every team after Audi.

**AndyRAC** · 17th April 2020, 10:23

It took a while for Mitsubishi to get their act together in regards to showcasing their rally/ road cars. Here in the UK, none pf the first 5 Lancer Evo were officially imported. You had to get a 'grey import'. The 6 was the first one to be officially sold, you wonder what took them so long?

As for the VW effort, well it wasn't a surprise. One only had to look at the Audi efforts in Sportscars - they were fully committed, financially and in resources. In fact, the LMP effort was an R&D programme as opposed to marketing. If VW took the WRC programme anywhere near as seriously, (and why wouldn't they?) then everybody was in trouble, including Citroen. And their first year with the Fabia was clear evidence how committed they were.

If you want to succeed, then you have to be 'all in' - no half measures.

**dimviii** · 17th April 2020, 10:41

Originally Posted by AnttiL

and every team after Audi.

not every team. Remember vw at group A era? Suzuki? citroen at bx 4 tc era? Skoda?

**doubled1978** · 17th April 2020, 10:55

Originally Posted by AndyRAC

It took a while for Mitsubishi to get their act together in regards to showcasing their rally/ road cars. Here in the UK, none pf the first 5 Lancer Evo were officially imported. You had to get a 'grey import'. The 6 was the first one to be officially sold, you wonder what took them so long?

As for the VW effort, well it wasn't a surprise. One only had to look at the Audi efforts in Sportscars - they were fully committed, financially and in resources. In fact, the LMP effort was an R&D programme as opposed to marketing. If VW took the WRC programme anywhere near as seriously, (and why wouldn't they?) then everybody was in trouble, including Citroen. And their first year with the Fabia was clear evidence how committed they were.

If you want to succeed, then you have to be 'all in' - no half measures.

That’s exactly right, Audi have probably been the best exponent of how to use motorsport activity over the last 40 years, everything they have done has had a strategic value whether it be marketing or R&D, and as you say they never mess about. The money that was being spent by the group on WEC with Audi & Porsche was said to be astronomical, and VW were rallying at that time also.
Citroen obviously did a great job when they came to WRC, spent lots of money and ended up dominating, but I always felt they didn’t appear to capitalise on it as much as they could have, perhaps living in the UK I didn’t see the best of their marketing but they didn’t do it to launch a sporty range or anything like that, in fact they seemed to almost do the opposite.

**Rally Power** · 17th April 2020, 22:07

Originally Posted by doubled1978

Citroen obviously did a great job when they came to WRC, spent lots of money and ended up dominating, but I always felt they didn’t appear to capitalise on it as much as they could have, perhaps living in the UK I didn’t see the best of their marketing but they didn’t do it to launch a sporty range or anything like that, in fact they seemed to almost do the opposite.

It’s fair to say that until the mid 10’s there were still sporty models in the Citroen range and some of those were even converted into low or mid budget rally cars (ZX, Saxo, C2, DS3) but after that it was a bit painful to see Citroen WRC effort getting so disconnected from their general production.

Btw, despite their revolutionary approach and the vast resources, Audi’s WRC winning path was far from the supremacy of Lancia in Gr.A days, Citroen in the 00’s or VW in the mid 10’s; still, it was more than enough to change the sport for ever.

**doubled1978** · 18th April 2020, 10:57

Originally Posted by Rally Power

It’s fair to say that until the mid 10’s there were still sporty models in the Citroen range and some of those were even converted into low or mid budget rally cars (ZX, Saxo, C2, DS3) but after that it was a bit painful to see Citroen WRC effort getting so disconnected from their general production.

Btw, despite their revolutionary approach and the vast resources, Audi’s WRC winning path was far from the supremacy of Lancia in Gr.A days, Citroen in the 00’s or VW in the mid 10’s; still, it was more than enough to change the sport for ever.

Oh I know, Audi didn’t dominate WRC in the way others have subsequently done, but the programme probably did more for the company than those of Lancia, Citroen or VW.
Lancia is actually one of the great shames of the auto industry, a legendary brand with such a rich history particularly in WRC that has withered to nothing....

**AnttiL** · 18th April 2020, 11:23

Audi dominated the rallies when they had 4WD and others didn't, but the cars were too unreliable (and hard to service in the African rallies). Right when other teams came out with 4WD cars, Audi started to fall behind.

**Rallyper** · 18th April 2020, 12:24

Originally Posted by AnttiL

Audi dominated the rallies when they had 4WD and others didn't, but the cars were too unreliable (and hard to service in the African rallies). Right when other teams came out with 4WD cars, Audi started to fall behind.

When other teams came around they had specially built bodyshells, while Audi was built from standard bodyshell, at least from the beginning. That was Group B and ended up in 86´faster than one could say safety...

**AnttiL** · 18th April 2020, 13:49

Yes. However, it's a shame we got to see so little of the Sport Quattro S1 E2 with the big wings. It sure seemed competitive with the cars it raced against, albeit having a more traditional construction.