Israel refuses peace negotiations

[Eki]

They want Hamas to fullfil some "pre-conditions" before any talks. In my opinion, negotiations should always be without any pre-conditions and no strings attached. As far as I know, the purpose of negotiations is to agree on any conditions, pre or after.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,318016,00.html

Olmert Calls Gaza Campaign 'True War'

Sunday, December 23, 2007

AP

JERUSALEM — Prime Minister Ehud Olmert on Sunday ruled out cease-fire talks with the Gaza Strip's Islamic Hamas rulers, vowing to press ahead with a "true war" against Palestinian militants who attack southern Israeli communities with rocket and mortar fire.

Meanwhile, a Cabinet minister confirmed that Israel has yet another plan to build hundreds of apartments in disputed east Jerusalem and the West Bank — touching off a new crisis in fledgling peace talks between Israel and the moderate, West Bank-based government of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas.

The Israeli military has struck hard in recent weeks against Hamas and other armed groups in Gaza. With troops appearing to make substantial gains, Olmert told his Cabinet there were no plans to slow down.

"Operations against terrorists will continue as they have been conducted for many months," Olmert said. "There is no other way to describe what is happening in the Gaza Strip except as a true war between the Israeli army and terror groups."

He said Israel would continue to allow humanitarian aid into Gaza to protect the area's civilians.

Israel sealed its borders with Gaza immediately after Hamas violently wrested control of the territory in June. Israel, which considers Hamas a terrorist group, has cut off most trade and reduced fuel shipments to the area.

Under heavy pressure from Israel's military gains and the economic embargo, Hamas has signaled readiness in recent days for a cease-fire. Several Israeli Cabinet ministers have said the government should consider the offer.

But Olmert told his Cabinet there would be no cease-fire until Hamas renounced violence and recognized Israel's right to exist — conditions set by the "Quartet" of international peace makers. "This policy will not change," he said.

The "Quartet" consists of the U.S., the European Union, the United Nations and Russia.

[Jag_Warrior]

Man, I hope that last check from the U.S. Treasury didn't bounce.

Things are a little tight just now in the ol' U.S. of A.: mortgage meltdown, Christmas right around the corner, declining manufacturing base. Wonder if they accept credit cards?

[Daniel]

Israel doesn't want peace on anyone elses terms. Fact.

[Eki]

Israel doesn't want peace on anyone elses terms. Fact.

That means there's no point for anyone else to negotiate with Israel but to continue terrorism or what ever they're doing. Fact.

The purpose of negotiations is to compromise and reach an agreement both parties can accept.

[Malbec]

Actually on this issue Israel is right.

Hamas can get away with making ridiculous claims like being committed to reclaiming all of Israel for the Palestinians through war if they remain a fringe armed faction but they're not. They were voted into power in the Occupied Territories and therefore represent the Palestinians not only in talks with the Israelis but with the rest of the world.

Its about time they grew up and recognised the state of Israel if they want to be taken seriously. Until they do they should rightfully be ignored by other parties.

The thing is that Hamas will be re-elected time and time again by the Palestinians. Not because they're committed to wiping Israel off the map but because they do a fantastic job in delivering local services that people really care about, garbage removal, clean water, electricity and education. They're also markedly less corrupt than the Fatah officials who have used US/EU money mainly to improve the size of their own bank accounts.

We need to get used to dealing with Hamas unless Fatah totally cleans up its act (which I doubt). However Hamas damn well needs to change itself to be people worth dealing with. If they don't then they'll soon realise how much its hurting any chance for peace and for improvements in the Occupied Territories.

[Magnus]

Yes, it is one big problem that hamas do not accept israel as a state in the first place, although I also agree with the statement that one should never rule out negotiations.

I doubt we will see a lasting peace in this region within the next 20-30 years. For every shell there is more hate, and for every other bomb there are more devoted young men, willing to give their life for the cause. And why is that? Lack of education, lack of money and lack of hope. A feeling of being utterly diminshed by the israels and the us.

The biggest problem is that it is difficult to talk with palestine as a state, because it tends to crack up in different fractions. One party will always be disappointed with what the other part agrees upon, and the critizisme will mostly, as it has been previously, imply that someone is being to soft.
I hope for the best, but I do not expect anything from this conflict, other then more pointless killings and more suffering on both sides.

[Drew]

What are these pre-conditions? It kind of depends whether Hamas has to do the catering or whether Hamas has to disband completely...

[Rani]

The purpose of negotiations is to compromise and reach an agreement both parties can accept.

Would you negotiate with a government that:
A. Doesn't think you have the right to exist (don't you think it's absurd offering a ceasefire to someone you truly believe should be wiped from the land?)
B. Targets CIVILIANS with rockets and mortars. It's not like there aren't any soldiers around, it's just that when you kill innocent children than you hit 'em where it hurts.
C. Has been holding Gilad Shalit (an Israeli soldier) captive for a year and a half without him facing judge nor jury.
Would you negotiate ?
I think what you stated is a pretentious and condesending, and it also shows that you have a very superficial understanding of the situation.

[Magnus]

It would be really interesting to hear your thoughts on the matter rani! how do you think the conflict should be solved? What do you think abt the possibilities? In sweden it is very difficult to take any other positition than that Israel is the bad guy, it sems, all though the swedish foreign minister carl Bildt has a quite healthy point of view, I think.
And what do the Israelis think generally? Do they feel that the israeli government are doing the right thing?

[Eki]

Would you negotiate with a government that:
A. Doesn't think you have the right to exist (don't you think it's absurd offering a ceasefire to someone you truly believe should be wiped from the land?)

I would at least try to talk to them to find out what their problem is with that and to find out if there's something we could do to reach a compromise.

B. Targets CIVILIANS with rockets and mortars. It's not like there aren't any soldiers around, it's just that when you kill innocent children than you hit 'em where it hurts.

Their rockets and mortars are so poorly guided and aimed they don't know where they land. Often they land on uninhabited areas. They don't have laser and GPS guided weapons like Israel (and yet Israel had the nerve to claim the bombing of the UN station in Lebanon was an accident) .