FIA hearing - Mclaren out of WCC 2007 *merged*

[Viktory]

What part of "We have to try it" you don't understand? It's plain English after all!

According to the evidence De La Rosa even tested the Ferrari weight distribution in a simulation... Of course they used some of the data...

[ioan]

You defended Schumacher when he blatantly cheated at Monaco, did you not?

He was convicted purely because he didn't damage the car, not because there was clear evidence of wrongdoing like in this case.

It was another spineless decision made by the FIA under external pressure. But we already discussed that extensively, so I won't start it again.

A case that is more like what we have no is the 94 Benetton TC case, and there again Max and Bernie orchestrated everything just like now, "for the well being of the sport" and their pockets.

[BeansBeansBeans]

Why? Because they talked about Ferrari's data?

Talking about it and using it are two different things, and so far the latter has not been proven.

They were obtaining confidential Ferrari data via an illegal channel in order to try and gain an advantage. The emails involving PDLR are pretty damning.

[markabilly]

I just thought that your name must be Mark, and that you liked Rockabilly music :

No, sorry my name is not mark at all

but I do like some of what some have reffered to as rockabilly music......

[Daniel]

They were obtaining confidential Ferrari data via an illegal channel in order to try and gain an advantage. The emails involving PDLR are pretty damning.

Exactly. Whether or not they gained advantage is irrelevant IMHO. Like taking drugs in cycling and then finishing last and arguing against a ban because you didn't gain any advantage

[ioan]

There is speculation in the ruling i.e. the content of the phone calls between NS & MC are not known BUT what has been released by the FIA shows that PDLR in particular discussed Ferrari data with Coughlan in full knowledge that it had come from Stepney. To what extent it was then used, and what effect that had on performance, is not clear, but it was discussed. PDLR then shared some of that with Alonso.

My first reaction on reading the FIA information was that Coughlan, PDLR and Alonso have landed McLaren right in it. I still don't believe that Ron Dennis had knowledge of this, and his statements reflect that, but that doesn't alter the point that members of his team had access to, and discussed, Ferrari data.

In the light of that, quite how Alonso can work with, and race for, the team for the remaining races of this season is beyond me, and how he (and PDLR) have escaped any sort of sanction (even given MM's immunity) is surprising to say the least.

I do believe that a more approriate punishment would have been to exclude the team - the entire team - from the whole of the 2007 season. That would be harsh on Hamilton, whose faith in Ron Dennis in particular has been obvious, but he is a member of the team as much as anyone.

Ferrari's position has been seen to be right. There was 'new evidence' and that new evidence has been crucial. I do think there are questions that remain about Nigel Stepney's role, and Ferrari's responsibility for his actions, because it remains the case that without his initial approach none of this would, or could, have happened.

That said, it seems McLaren team members sealed the fate of their team

Finally! I was starting to lose any hope.

In the light of that, quite how Alonso can work with, and race for, the team for the remaining races of this season is beyond me, and how he (and PDLR) have escaped any sort of sanction (even given MM's immunity) is surprising to say the least.

Money is killing this sport, and we all know who is the culprit for that. What we don't know is why the commercial rights holder has the right to be in the WMSC and to decide on sporting aspects of the "sport"!?

[N. Jones]

What part of "We have to try it" you don't understand? It's plain English after all!

There is no proof that they did use it in their race cars. I also ( laughing, sorry, I do not want to get in a heated argument with you) did see the english that stated: It is unlikely that a test driver would pursue or not pursue these new ideas on his own.

It is clear throughout the whole FIA document that people within McLaren DID talk about trying these things but there is no evidence that they USED it.

That is what I am saying. If they did use it then McLaren should be thrown out.

Also, I know this makes you mad ioan, but the other facts are as follows:

Ferrari ran an illegal car during the Australian Grand Prix (as proven by Coughlin admitting that Stepney told him so and showed him the data to back up him claim). No punishment was doled out to Ferrari.

Nigel Stepney has stolen a huge amount of data from Ferrari and as yet the FIA has done nothing, not even a slap on the wrist, when it comes to what Mr. Stepney has done. He ratted out his employer! He willing told McLaren when Kimi was stopping at Oz!

If McLaren are to be dragged over the coals due to some rogue employees why aren't Ferrari?

[ICKE]

Ferrari ran an illegal car (as proven by Coughlin stating that Stepney told him so and should him the data). No punishment was doled out to Ferrari.

Your facts are not facts but personal opinions, and incorrect as well, it was not an illegal car.

[ioan]

In reading the FIA press release. It is funny to note that most of this type of conversations and communications goes on ALL THE TIME , and have dbeen done so since the inception of the sport.

I gurantee you that if you demanded the communctaion from Ferrari, Renault and BMW, you would find eerily similar discusion going on and almost the same precison of technical data being used about other teams.

What exactly do you think Adrian Newy is doing over at Red Bull. Inventing stuff he doesn't know or relying on information "in his head" about stuff he carries over from his prevous stints. As well as probasbly quite ongoing conversations with his contacts and sources around the industry.

It was proven that McClaren did not benefit from the technical specs at all, and I might remind a few people that most of the work of the 2007 car was completed sometime in mid-late 2006.

If the FIA are going to become the subective arbitrators of interpreting what communication is deemed stolen info and what isn't, or for that matter what the notion of stolen data is,... thewn we are going to go down a very slipperly slope in F1.

More and more denial of the reality.

[Malbec]

Nigel Stepney has stolen a huge amount of data from Ferrari and as yet the FIA has done nothing, not even a slap on the wrist, when it comes to what Mr. Stepney has done. He ratted out his employer! He willing told McLaren when Kimi was stopping at Oz!

If McLaren are to be dragged over the coals due to some rogue employees why aren't Ferrari?

There will be another FIA hearing in the next month concerning Coughlan and Stepney. If found guilty of misconduct both could be banned in working in FIA regulated motorsport ever again.