What Happens Next?

[Mark in Oshawa]

I think to bring things on to going forward, we should look at what will happen, and what we want to happen.

I want there to be some sort of merger with one series that makes economic sense.

The reality is, unless the CCWS changes a few things and learns to market their series to the same market (rather than chasing niches or markets), they wont be a success, at least not to the extent some of you think they are now.

CCWS can survive but it will take more capital, a good schedule and sticking to the plan. The only plan they have used so far is Chaos...

I think a schedule that is about 50% North American, 50% other MIGHT work, but it should have been an evolution, and not be at the expense of American Venues. It isn't that I am in love with America, but it is because this is, for better or worse an American based series, and that is part of the marketing angle that even KK is admitting to using right now.

I think CART had the right idea going to Europe, but they didn't stay, and Champ Car was wrong not to follow up in the same markets. Now they are back, and Assen is a great event, Zolder might be, but Eurospeedway put on a great show, had full stands........and was forgotten about. Changing the agenda over a 3 year period like this, while marketing American racing to Europe is just silly. Nothing was more American than oval racing...and yet KK is running from that legacy.

No, to become f1 lite isn't the future. Race in Europe, Asia, and OZ, and do it at good venues, but don't dump on what history you hate, and promote the stuff you like....

[David St. Hubbins]

But who fills those shoes?

I give up. Who? You?

I'd like to know what the insiders (of which you claim to be-while it's possible, of course, but anyone can claim that on a message board...let's say I give you a 50/50 chance of being what you say) are doing to make this situation go forward.

[sanguin]

I think I know what happens next, but I'm not saying ....yet.

mokin:

[O&A Virus]

I think I know what happens next, but I'm not saying ....yet.

mokin:

We can hardly wait.

[heelntoe]

I give up. Who? You?

I'd like to know what the insiders (of which you claim to be-while it's possible, of course, but anyone can claim that on a message board...let's say I give you a 50/50 chance of being what you say) are doing to make this situation go forward.

Actually, I think Doc said he was a former insider as I am as well. And why is there so much scepticism of the credibility of those of us who have been involved, are no longer, but still want to follow from a distance? Posters have questioned why I would come to this site to comment. Let me ask those folks, if you had stood strongly behind the Principals of CCWS (and in many of our cases, spent serious time & $) and they had treated you as they have so many people, would you not have an interest in seeing the outcome of this series...sort of like an MPG or JDSU Shareholder? Let's throw out some of us, such as Tommy Kendall, John Thawley, Emmerson Fittipaldi (yes, Emmo too), Wendy Gabers, David Clare, Todd Benne, myself, Gordon Kirby, etc.

St. Hubbins, I can't speak for Doc or most of the others, but i can say that many of us simply don't believe that Champcar can go forward the way it's being run...to now hear that Tags never received his '04 $ from PG (as a series owner) cements the feelings of many of us. And to Skid Marx, Garyshell and those who feel we should all bear our identities, you folks clearly aren't current or past insiders or you would know the answer to why those of us with an ounce of intelligence would not want that. if it's jealosy, BELIEVE me, it's not something you want to have...and for those who would still want to push, I, for one, can answer questions about the time I was there that no one other than an insider could answer...so bring it on if you must...and eat crow when you know the truth!

[Mark in Oshawa]

Actually, I think Doc said he was a former insider as I am as well. And why is there so much scepticism of the credibility of those of us who have been involved, are no longer, but still want to follow from a distance? Posters have questioned why I would come to this site to comment. Let me ask those folks, if you had stood strongly behind the Principals of CCWS (and in many of our cases, spent serious time & $) and they had treated you as they have so many people, would you not have an interest in seeing the outcome of this series...sort of like an MPG or JDSU Shareholder? Let's throw out some of us, such as Tommy Kendall, John Thawley, Emmerson Fittipaldi (yes, Emmo too), Wendy Gabers, David Clare, Todd Benne, myself, Gordon Kirby, etc.

St. Hubbins, I can't speak for Doc or most of the others, but i can say that many of us simply don't believe that Champcar can go forward the way it's being run...to now hear that Tags never received his '04 $ from PG (as a series owner) cements the feelings of many of us. And to Skid Marx, Garyshell and those who feel we should all bear our identities, you folks clearly aren't current or past insiders or you would know the answer to why those of us with an ounce of intelligence would not want that. if it's jealosy, BELIEVE me, it's not something you want to have...and for those who would still want to push, I, for one, can answer questions about the time I was there that no one other than an insider could answer...so bring it on if you must...and eat crow when you know the truth!

There are a lot of people on here who claim inside information. I know from a few of my friends I see at Toronto and ALMS every year that there people in CCWS positions that read this board. I know this because they tell me face to face they figured out who Iam, but hey, I am not an insider. I am a fan, who happens to volunteer to work at races. I base anything I say based on my opinion only formed from the facts at hand.

The "insiders" that many often question will either have their status confirmed or dismissed by what they say, and how events turn out. Often how they state their opinion can give the game away. I don't need to grill anyone, I can guess on people's cred by what they say, and how things turn out. "Dr. Jack Miller" has claimed this status, and I have no idea where he came from, but he is asking very intelligent and pertinent questions, so I think no matter where he came from, he is very credbile. Some others are maybe not as obvious, but they are out there, and I will let you guys decide who you want to fight with or agree with. You will anyhow...

[Mark in Oshawa]

Heelntoe, as for your statement there is a mountain of bodies that have been heaved over the side, you are right on. It bothers me the quality of the people of used to work for this series that do not now....and at some point, it strains all reason to believe they all got stupid over night......

[heelntoe]

Heelntoe, as for your statement there is a mountain of bodies that have been heaved over the side, you are right on. It bothers me the quality of the people of used to work for this series that do not now....and at some point, it strains all reason to believe they all got stupid over night......

Mark, I've always read and appreciated your posts and I normally don't get wound up until a wacky poster like that guy Cache a while back or Sanguine now (I think they're the same guy by the way), jumps into the pool. Gary and Skid I can handle as they just want to see something good happen with the series (oh, and Jimispeed, who I think is great). The sad part is that this series is grasping at straws that aren't in any of their drinks! I will go out on the limb to predict a few things: Paul N is out after this year as Joann wants him home and the series is failing; GF sells to Tony Cochrane or someone else as he's totally fed up with KK and PG; Rocketsports folds, which it should anyway; Vegas gets shut down unless KK foots the bill; and China remains only something to serve food on. I'm sorry for my cynicism, but I know thhese guys and they can't get past themselves.

[Chaparral66]

This thread has certainly brought out a lot of opinions, and that's a good thing. Starter, I realize it may be a bit annoying that most threads start out talking about the actual racing, and then it turns into politics again. But the split is so all consumming, and I think if there is one thing that binds all of us here, as well as in the IRL forums, is that we want the split to end and get back to just the racing. I think we as a group need to continue to advance that idea with every once of sweat that we can.

DrJack in one of his last posts here, agai asked "What happens next?" I don't want to run that question into the ground Doc, because you have gotten a lot of responses here to that query. I had planned to write a long response to you last post, but I think I'll keep it short this time. None of us knows what happens next, we can only give an opinion as to what we think should happen next. This mostly from a CC viewpoint, but hey, this is a CC forum.

1) Get rid of Paul Gentillozzi as a CCWS series owner (you gotta let him own a team). I don't deny his passion, just his judgement. He is a cancer that seems to be growing, and after killing Trans Am, now his bad judgement seems to have more influence than his investment in CCWS is worthy of (according to some, he hasn't even paid his shares yet).

2) CCWS must never promote an event they don't even have locked down yet. Even a high school athletic director vying for a county wide basketball tourney knows that much.

3) The IRL must quit waiting for the other OWS shoe to drop. CC is just as determined as the IRL, and neither side is accomplishing anything.

4) Merge the two series, with both being prepared to sacrifice something. Once this is done, just hand the keys of Open Wheel Racing over to Roger Penske for 3-5 years and let him have at it, with input from Bryan Barnhart and Tony Cotman. You have to give the IRL its props for a great job at Belle Isle over this past weekend and the lion's share of that must go to Penske. The Captain clearly gets it when it comes to promoting an event, attracting fans, and making the fans feel comfortable and appreciated once they get there. The was proven true when he either created or took over venues like Michigan and Fontana, and how that fan regard took a nose dive once ISC got their mitts on them. Penske knows how to sweat the details, and make the fans want to come back. Let The Captain steer the ship, and he will take us all to the Open Wheel promised land...

[Mark in Oshawa]

Mark, I've always read and appreciated your posts and I normally don't get wound up until a wacky poster like that guy Cache a while back or Sanguine now (I think they're the same guy by the way), jumps into the pool. Gary and Skid I can handle as they just want to see something good happen with the series (oh, and Jimispeed, who I think is great). The sad part is that this series is grasping at straws that aren't in any of their drinks! I will go out on the limb to predict a few things: Paul N is out after this year as Joann wants him home and the series is failing; GF sells to Tony Cochrane or someone else as he's totally fed up with KK and PG; Rocketsports folds, which it should anyway; Vegas gets shut down unless KK foots the bill; and China remains only something to serve food on. I'm sorry for my cynicism, but I know these guys and they can't get past themselves.

Thanks for the kind words, I have great regard for your posts as well. Cache and Sanguin could be the same guy or not, it makes no difference. I wont let lies and stupidity pollute the board if I can refute with logic and reality.

You, Gary, Skid, Jimi ( who doesn't love Jimi's faith? ) and others have been great to argue with, agree with and be a fan with over my time on this board. There are others (Hey, you know who you are) as well, and I think what unites most of us is that we want this series to succeed. I used to be just a fan, and always took the defensive to defend this series and where it stood, but this year, I just realized that the Amigo's are just not getting it done. I like Kalkoven, but I think he has tacitly let Forsythe and Gentilozzi run things, and it shows this year. Yes we have a new car, but that seemed to be where the good news stopped. Europe has turned out to be good news,but lets face it, when you are failing in your core market, it is like saying your hubcaps look great, but you still don't know what to do with all the rust on the body.

I think Champ Car soldiers on next year, but Newman will be out soon ( I cant imagine he likes what he see's) and NH goes to the IRL if not next year but the following year. IF Forsythe sold to Cochrane, I would cheer this on, for I don't think Gerry really should be in the promotion/ownership side of this series. I think we may see some new series, but I bet Vegas will follow Phoenix, and there will be doubts on other venues. If Champ Car makes the leap to international venues and makes them pay, without losing teams, they have a fighting chance, but by failing in their core market, they send a message that they are flailing about without a direction or an idea where the fans went. It just is sad, and while this wouldn't have been the fate of CART if the IRL never happened, one can just weep at just how much healthier OW racing would be on this continent if Tony had been more constructive and not destructive.