Career Progression - the Brookes/Ellison Effect

[tha_jackal]

The reason Ant West has got his career back on track is because he has a new and decent manager, Harris Barnett (i think, used to manage Gardner) saw him struggling in 250s and set up his rides in WSS which allowed him to impress a GP team and now he looks like being there in 2008.. Id say a manager means alot

[NinjaMaster]

Do most (all?) riders use managers to negotiate this stuff? I'm sure there's good and bad managers/agents out there... also, we're talking guys that take risks for a living, so some are not going to go for the 'safe' option.

And some just love to race and will take whatever's going.

Vermeulen was a good example of a rider derided for making a 'bad' choice, but he's now arguably one of the top ten names in the world. Clearly, what the rider brings to the table is of equal importance to the quality of the team/bike he is racing on... some riders out there should perhaps take note.

Great post Pat.

Some riders (or any other sportsmen for that matter) like to handle their own business and manage themselves. The rest have somone managing them, either professional managers or parents. I believe Stoner's parents manage him.
And it really is a terrific topic by Pat.

The reason Ant West has got his career back on track is because he has a new and decent manager, Harris Barnett (i think, used to manage Gardner) saw him struggling in 250s and set up his rides in WSS which allowed him to impress a GP team and now he looks like being there in 2008.. Id say a manager means alot

Did Harris organise the 250 ride this year? Perhaps not everything comes off then...

At the end of the day, a rider or manager has to look at options presented to them and determine which one can take the rider the furthest. Many riders have been suckered into ordinary rides by shifty teams and it can really hurt a career. Most riders can probably get away with a poor season once, but a couple of bad decisions can really send them to the bottom of the pile for a long time. It's happened plenty of times before and will happen plenty more times in the future. I guess, rule of thumb is, if the team has a history of poor results and equipment, don't believe that they will suddenly become successful unless a factory backs up their story.

[tha_jackal]

I think the 250 ride appeared better on paper than it turned out (bad team and less than satisfactory bike).. So he did well to recover and earn Ant some exposure through WSS IMO.. He's doing a good job for Ant i rekon..

[ChrisS]

Do most (all?) riders use managers to negotiate this stuff?

I think Colin Edwards doesn't have a manager, he does his own negotiations.

[neninja]

I have just been watching the AMA and was surprised to see so few competing after failing to qualify 10 riders were unable to participate in the actual race that day as the power of the Factory suzukis quashed any chance of the privateers being within the times needed to compete during the race week end. That was a whole lot of money down the drain for many riders and sponsors... The gap continually windening each year.

A large number of riders in AMA Superbike are what I'd call 'hobby' racers.

They have plenty of money behind them from their family or businesses and are living a dream. They are not the quickest guys on track but their cash buys them decent bikes, kit, motorhomes etc.
I know of at least one rider in AMA Superbike who won't ride in the fast group at trackdays!!! He does however have very deep pockets and can afford to enjoy his hobby on a pretty big stage.

[ChrisS]

A large number of riders in AMA Superbike are what I'd call 'hobby' racers.

They have plenty of money behind them from their family or businesses and are living a dream. They are not the quickest guys on track but their cash buys them decent bikes, kit, motorhomes etc.
I know of at least one rider in AMA Superbike who won't ride in the fast group at trackdays!!! He does however have very deep pockets and can afford to enjoy his hobby on a pretty big stage.

Even if someone is fast at trackdays that doesn't mean he can race, going fast and racing wheel to wheel are 2 different things, yet somehow riders with very little racing experience find their way into superbike events.

I often wonder about the way AMA, runs the series

[The Phantom]

I often wonder about the way AMA, runs the series

Given that at the last AMA SBK round a large number of teams could not even qualify within the 107% (or whatever the cut-off is) of the time set by the Suzukis, you have to wonder... seems AMA is the place for big fish who like to swim in small ponds.

[NinjaMaster]

AMA would seriously be far better off 'dumbing' down their rules so that superbike was not so big budget and fields could be more competitive. Out of AMA, BSB and ASC (Aus Supers Champs), I would say that AMA is the least competitive from what I have seen, particularly from the point of view of the amount of backmarkers they lap. In my opinion, they should scrap FX and keep supersport, make superbikes less modded but higher than superstock and make superstock very mod restrictive and leave it open to c and d grade riders only. Australia did something similar and the quality of the racing has improved a lot.
The problem for us in Aus is the superbike grids are pretty thin as after the distributor 'factory' backed teams, there is very little support for privateers in what is sadly an ignored by the media series that produces a much higher level of competitor than say V8 Supercars does. The problem with not being mainstream I guess. It would be nice if a big name rider, Doohan or Gardner for example, could get behind the series and give it some profile.
I'm not sure this post is particularly on topic, but anyway...

[neninja]

Even if someone is fast at trackdays that doesn't mean he can race, going fast and racing wheel to wheel are 2 different things, yet somehow riders with very little racing experience find their way into superbike events.

I often wonder about the way AMA, runs the series

I think you've missed my point. The guy races in the Premier Superbike class in AMA but won't mix it with the fast lads on a trackday. Money but not talent.

[patnicholls]

I guess another example of how things can go drastically differently with different choices is to look at the top guys from last year's British Supersport Championship:

British Supersport 2006

1 - Cal Crutchlow (Ekerold Honda) - 242
2 - Tom Sykes (TAS Suzuki) - 172
3 - Eugene Laverty (Red Bull Honda) - 152 [injury-disrupted, missed several races]
4 - Leon Camier (Ekerold Honda) - 112 [had a large chunk of bad luck]
5 - Dennis Hobbs - 105
6 - Stuart Easton - 84
7 - Pere Riba - 73
8 - Jamie Robinson - 71
9 - Ian Lowry - 59
10 - Kieran Murphy - 59, etc

The top four guys from that series all moved on to other series for 2007:

Cal took a Rizla Suzuki seat in BSB, he sits 10th in the standings with 125 points, has had a pole position and three fourth place finishes. He started slowly but is now starting to regularly finish ahead of his team-mate Chris Walker and will be retained for next year, although the Suzuki is not race-winning material at present.

Tom Sykes joined Stobart Honda in BSB and is sixth in the standings with 230 points. He has had three podiums and has been ultra-consistent, with only two DNFs and no finishes below seventh in any race. Superb debut season and a maiden win isn't far away. Will either be retained or snapped up by the HRC team next season.

Eugene Laverty moved to 250GPs with Lucio Cecchinello's Honda squad. He's just 25th in the standings with only three points and a best finish of 14th.

Leon Camier has been riding the Bike Animal Honda in BSB which is a Dunlop-shod near-factory bike. He scored three early podiums but hasn't quite managed to get there again, and is seventh in the standings with 199 points. He looks unlikely to race again this year after breaking his leg in a horrid crash at Cadwell Park, but can be well-pleased with his efforts.

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There are often comments along the lines of 'why the Brit obssession with Superbikes?' and the above pretty much provides the answer. It's clear that Eugene's choice hasn't worked out well compared with the other guys - if you were a team manager looking for riders, who'd you be going after out of those four? And Eugene would've been easily second in BSS 2006 but for injury, he's certainly got talent but this year in 250s could really harm his future prospects. I suppose the flip-side would be that there's no guarantee that things would have worked out better for him in BSB, and indeed the guys who did go there didn't know how it would go. Maybe one or more of them had 250 offers. It's rather easy to say things like this with hindsight, when all's said and done.