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  1. #11
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny0405 View Post
    Don’t really see how we can seriously imagine a new manufacturer to come in the current context, especially with a regulation that could change in 2026.
    Even Matton in the end told *no new manufacturer before 2024*at the earliest* and when you know all the shit he said about new manufacturers really interested...
    If we're going to a completely new class in 2025, then any new manufacturer would join for that year. But if hybrids continue with some changes until 2026, then we could see a new manufacturer join from 2024 onwards for three years. That's why it's important for FIA to decide this soon!

  2. #12
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny0405 View Post
    For me, more than the technical part of electric or not (even if it must be taken into account), the main point is to reduce dramatically costs to allow the manufacturer to develop a client-competition model to fund their top-class program and even why not, allowing half-manufacturer entrance (such as M-Sport or Toksport); it would lower the financial risk for the manufacturers and open largely the pool of manufacturers able to come in the game. So I would go to a Rally2 upgraded style of car.
    It may imply WRC do not attract the main brand of a group (maybe more Skoda than VW, Mini more than BMW, Kia more than Hyundai, ...) but I think the number of manufacturers is more important than the big names, ...
    We've already heard from the current manufacturer teams that they wouldn't continue without the current hybrids. Even M-Sport said so!

    VAG Group ended all its ICE motorsport action so I wouldn't expect Skoda to join in. Besides, Skoda just ended their WRC2 factory program a few years ago.

    Like WRCStan said, the cost of the cars is never an issue when a big manufacturer commits to a full WRC season. It will always be dozens of millions even with tiny Rally5 FWD cars.

  3. #13
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    No doubt they should go fully electric if they are wanting to get more manufacturers into the sport. Yes, the sound, but by then I'm sure there will be a good solution for this. Paddons car is a good example of good progression on this matter.

  4. #14
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    I think the main problem for the manufacturer's low entrants is the lack of structure, especially in the connection with the support category. In this respect, rally3 could be a step forward. FIA should find a way to connect wrc better with lower category. i'm ok in having rally1 as the "spearhead" even if it means to be a bit of alien level for many to reach. what i think should be done is investing on manus championship and resonance to wrc2/3. make a big impact for manus working in lower class (maybe rewarding them with some class points valid also in general classification?). think about skoda in wrc2 or renault interest in wrc3. mixing up the reward between classes could raise interest of manufactures, also from pr perspective. they can probably force a junior team of rally1 manus in wrc2/3 that gives points in the general standings, open to other manus still good for general standings. this will growth also the work on the next gens drivers...
    i think the idea should connect the work of manus beyond class division, that is something near the openness needs we discussed many times, without a complete revolution of the whole thing...

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    VAG Group ended all its ICE motorsport action so I wouldn't expect Skoda to join in. Besides, Skoda just ended their WRC2 factory program a few years ago.
    LOL, they did say that. And now are on the verge of entering F1, an hybrid sport, with both Porsche and Audi.

  6. Likes: AndyRAC (24th January 2022),becher (24th January 2022)
  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyler View Post
    I think the main problem for the manufacturer's low entrants is the lack of structure, especially in the connection with the support category. In this respect, rally3 could be a step forward. FIA should find a way to connect wrc better with lower category. i'm ok in having rally1 as the "spearhead" even if it means to be a bit of alien level for many to reach. what i think should be done is investing on manus championship and resonance to wrc2/3. make a big impact for manus working in lower class (maybe rewarding them with some class points valid also in general classification?). think about skoda in wrc2 or renault interest in wrc3. mixing up the reward between classes could raise interest of manufactures, also from pr perspective. they can probably force a junior team of rally1 manus in wrc2/3 that gives points in the general standings, open to other manus still good for general standings. this will growth also the work on the next gens drivers...
    i think the idea should connect the work of manus beyond class division, that is something near the openness needs we discussed many times, without a complete revolution of the whole thing...
    Not sure I follow here, do you mean have one manufacturers championship from every level - like teams in ERC? I think this would kill Rally1 and all the investment into promoting WRC. What's the incentive for new Rally1 manufacturers to join and what car will they have to build? They don't care for developing talent or sporting niceties, and a shortage of talent isn't the issue.

  8. Likes: AnttiL (24th January 2022),lancia037 (24th January 2022),pantealex (24th January 2022)
  9. #17
    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    IMHO the new cars will be fully electric - either with range extender generator or with hydrogen fuel cells. It's neither feasible not benefficial to run WRC rallies on batteries alone. One of the reason why the new cars will have to be electric is money. You won't get sponsorship deals on ICE rally cars anymore on the very top level.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

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  11. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Francis44 View Post
    LOL, they did say that. And now are on the verge of entering F1, an hybrid sport, with both Porsche and Audi.
    VW is a reactionary joke, Skoda in rallying, Audi in touring cars, GT, rally raid (with a hybrid the bloody thing is not a BEV) and soon a spec prototype class, Porsche in GT and soon spec prototype, Seat in touring cars, Lamborghini in GT and likely spec prototypes as well and multiple other potential projects. All while their CEO is having flame wars on twitter about BEV vs ICE.

  12. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by WRCStan View Post
    Not sure I follow here, do you mean have one manufacturers championship from every level - like teams in ERC? I think this would kill Rally1 and all the investment into promoting WRC. What's the incentive for new Rally1 manufacturers to join and what car will they have to build? They don't care for developing talent or sporting niceties, and a shortage of talent isn't the issue.
    yes, kind of, with some proportion in point maybe. I'm saying to find a way to mix it up, to have low tier manus in the mix somehow. the question you raise is on point, i reflected on it too, but the answer is kind of already in the discussion above. some manus wants top class to show to have good pr (that's why they were against stepping down to rally2+). so -maybe a long shot- but big ones will still stick with a top tier (we were also saying money it's not the real issue, so...). on the other side, being in the mix could raise ambition to go full tilt later on from rally 2 (skoda -vag group) or step up from rally 3 (renault to rally2 -still ex psa, now stellantis group-). Also having top tier they will be hard to beat from others.

    Don't know, just a reflection on something that can improve/change. maybe a bad idea entirely...

    Edit: integration.
    not looking for top tier manus, others like renault and somehow m-sport are indeed looking for growing new talents. also quite all top tier manus are in the process to (or already have) rally2/3.
    i'm kinda tring to look bottom up and not top down.
    Last edited by wyler; 24th January 2022 at 12:39. Reason: add on

  13. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    But WRC already has now non-fossil synth fuel
    Yep, thats what I meant. This is whats left for wrc.... but F1 is aiming for this too (the non-fossil synth fuel).
    Then if a manufacturer is ok with being envolved in motorsport with synth-fuel on hybrid cars, they will proooobably pick F1 to invest, not wrc. Aston Martin and Alfa Romeo are not even real work-teams in F1 but they see the value of exposure. Im happy that Toyota and Hyndai are in WRC not F1, but I imagine they are only here because they know they cant compete with Mercedes, 'RedBull', Ferrari over there...

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