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Thread: WRC future

  1. #921
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    I beg to disagree here, I would claim the difference between Rally1 and Rally2 cars doesn't make that much of a difference in a yearly budget of a WRC team. It's more dramatic for privateers.
    But if the top level of the sport is more accessible to privateers that’s a good thing right? Especially at a time when direct manufacturer backing is more shaky.

    Let's assume a season with Rally1 costs 100 money units for a manufacturer and the same season with Rally2 costs 75 money units. Do they invest the 75 in something they don't want/need to promote (ICE's, car models without hybrid), or 100 in something they do want to promote (hybrids, street models with hybrids)?
    The proposals are for mild hybrid systems to be introduced to Rally2 cars from 2023. I’m sure that could be brought forward a year without too much trouble.

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    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS View Post
    The proposals are for mild hybrid systems to be introduced to Rally2 cars from 2023. I’m sure that could be brought forward a year without too much trouble.
    Manufacturers are not interested in mild hybrid as the top class.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

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    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    Manufacturers are not interested in mild hybrid as the top class.
    And the Rally2 models don’t have hybrid street versions

  6. #924
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    And the Rally2 models don’t have hybrid street versions
    AFAIK the Fiesta already has a hybrid version and the I20 will soon have one aswell.

    The Fabia Im not sure about but that model has been left in a limbo by VAG group for some years now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    I beg to disagree here, I would claim the difference between Rally1 and Rally2 cars doesn't make that much of a difference in a yearly budget of a WRC team. It's more dramatic for privateers.

    A tyre, a liter of gasoline, a night at a hotel, a flight, monthly salary of an employee, headquarters, service park buildings, a day of testing - everything costs the same, no matter if it's WRC or R1 car.

    Let's assume a season with Rally1 costs 100 money units for a manufacturer and the same season with Rally2 costs 75 money units. Do they invest the 75 in something they don't want/need to promote (ICE's, car models without hybrid), or 100 in something they do want to promote (hybrids, street models with hybrids)?
    2 years ago an engineer at a works team told me the budget needed for developing a WRC car was roughly 7x the budget needed for an R5 car. It does make a huge difference in the yearly budget of WRC teams. R5-regulations have a lot of limitations (intended to limit costs), making all manufacturers use many parts that are already on existing cars. For WRC they need to develop nearly every part from scratch.

  9. Likes: AnttiL (1st November 2020),Mirek (1st November 2020),pantealex (1st November 2020),RS (1st November 2020)
  10. #926
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommeke_B View Post
    2 years ago an engineer at a works team told me the budget needed for developing a WRC car was roughly 7x the budget needed for an R5 car. It does make a huge difference in the yearly budget of WRC teams. R5-regulations have a lot of limitations (intended to limit costs), making all manufacturers use many parts that are already on existing cars. For WRC they need to develop nearly every part from scratch.
    Fair point. it also seem the technical barrier to entry for an R5 model is lower - meaning it does not require years of experience and a plethora of experienced engineers to design a competitive R5, just because technology involved is much simpler. This thread has been focusing on cost, but don't forget about "access easiness"

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  12. #927
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommeke_B View Post
    2 years ago an engineer at a works team told me the budget needed for developing a WRC car was roughly 7x the budget needed for an R5 car. It does make a huge difference in the yearly budget of WRC teams. R5-regulations have a lot of limitations (intended to limit costs), making all manufacturers use many parts that are already on existing cars. For WRC they need to develop nearly every part from scratch.
    I'm still convinced that manus will use 7x budget to develop R5 anyway if they become top tier. They'll find some area in which use it to gain advantage on the competitors. Look at the test ban: they found a way to test anyway (paying for it). who has the money will use it anyway. This also apply to easy access, for sure will be easier for newcomer, but they will have experience gap to the regulars anyway.

  13. Likes: AnttiL (1st November 2020),NickRally (4th November 2020),pantealex (2nd November 2020)
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    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    Manufacturers are not interested in mild hybrid as the top class.
    How can you be that sure? Mr. Wilson was pretty vocal against Rally1H costs, defending a Rally2 based solution, while Adamo asked Rally1H postponement in the same week Rally2 mild hybrids were announced; honestly, at this point it's quite hard to know what's going behind the curtain.
    Rally addict since 1982

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    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    And the Rally2 models don’t have hybrid street versions
    As Francis44 mentioned, the new i20 and the Fiesta already have mild hybrid versions; the system is becoming current in the industry and it won't take long for most B segment cars to have it.

    https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...le-%C2%A319860

    https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/hyunda...h-hybrid-power
    Last edited by Rally Power; 1st November 2020 at 11:50.
    Rally addict since 1982

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  17. #930
    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    How can you be that sure? Mr. Wilson was pretty vocal against Rally1H costs, defending a Rally2 based solution, while Adamo asked Rally1H postponement in the same week Rally2 mild hybrids were announced; honestly, at this point it's quite hard to know what's going behind the curtain.
    Wilson does not represent manufacturers.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  18. Likes: AnttiL (1st November 2020),pantealex (2nd November 2020)

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