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Thread: WRC future

  1. #541
    Senior Member Fast Eddie WRC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T16 View Post
    Fantastic post. We just need to keep the current manus and hopefully add some more.
    We’re honestly not in a position to pick and choose at the moment.
    The cars will always be exciting.
    Get put off because of a small body shape change... you’re no fan of rallying, simple as that.
    I'm not going to be 'put off' or stop watching WRC if/when the cars change. After over 30 years and many previous changes that isnt going to happen with any rally fan.

    You have missed my point (as usual) that this is about what rally fans WANT and what they would PREFER in the future.

    If cars are going to change (IMO for the worse) in terms of looks, speed or noise then I am within my rights to say I'm not happy or looking forward to them.

    This isnt the same as saying I'm going to give up on rallying.

    And it just annoys me when T16 says that he doesnt care what the future cars are like and he will watch whatever they stick out there, and he has no preference or desire for something better (like we have now).
    Chris Ingram (GBR) - Ross Whittock (GBR)
    * European Rally Champions *

  2. #542
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC View Post
    This has gone down well in the Service Park !?

    https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/the-c...fishs-support/
    TL;DR: George Donaldson and the whole DirtFish staff wants R5 to be the main class of WRC

  3. #543
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC View Post
    I'm not going to be 'put off' or stop watching WRC if/when the cars change. After over 30 years and many previous changes that isnt going to happen with any rally fan.

    You have missed my point (as usual) that this is about what rally fans WANT and what they would PREFER in the future.

    If cars are going to change (IMO for the worse) in terms of looks, speed or noise then I am within my rights to say I'm not happy or looking forward to them.

    This isnt the same as saying I'm going to give up on rallying.

    And it just annoys me when T16 says that he doesnt care what the future cars are like and he will watch whatever they stick out there, and he has no preference or desire for something better (like we have now).
    I haven’t missed your point at all.... I think you have missed mine.
    You are claiming that you know what rally fans want (no SUVs) and that introducing them would be detrimental to the sport (via lost fans) See, I understand your point.

    I am asking you what gives you the evidence to speak in such general terms about what rally fans want? I understand you aren’t a fan of the SUV, but what evidence have you got that that view is shared on such a scale that it is going to be detrimental to the sport?

    Also, I asked why you seem so certain that the top drivers won’t want to drive these cars?

    And what about wales 2017? Did you forget about Elfyn?

    Which stages have you watched at too?
    Last edited by T16; 5th May 2020 at 14:41.

  4. #544
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    This is getting a bit tiresome now...

    Quote Originally Posted by T16 View Post
    I haven’t missed your point at all.... I think you have missed mine.
    You are claiming that you know what rally fans want (no SUVs) and that introducing them would be detrimental to the sport (via lost fans) See, I understand your point.

    I am asking you what gives you the evidence to speak in such general terms about what rally fans want? I understand you aren’t a fan of the SUV, but what evidence have you got that that view is shared on such a scale that it is going to be detrimental to the sport?
    If I had to guess I'd imagine that the move to SUV/'CUV' won't be warmly welcomed, but will have little impact on the (already now niche) following of the sport, particularly if their performance is similar to the current level. Those who gave up on rallying because of the cars used gave up a long time ago. I do believe that '17 cars brought some of these people back in though. Given that you can't provide 'evidence' that it'll have no impact, what evidence should Eddie provide?

    Quote Originally Posted by T16 View Post
    Also, I asked why you seem so certain that the top drivers won’t want to drive these cars?
    Well Neuville has said "I don't know if I'm really interested to drive these cars but we're going to find out."

    Quote Originally Posted by T16 View Post
    And what about wales 2017? Did you forget about Elfyn?
    I'm afraid this is where I completely disagree with you over Eddie. Were there more Welsh locals out in 2017 than normal just to cheer on Elfyn? I'd say so. But I have no doubt that the '17 cars made a far greater impact on increased spectator numbers and general following of the sport in 2017, and even more so in subsequent years. I've had numerous discussions with random people out on stages over the last few years, with people who either hadn't closely followed the sport or attended stages since the Group B days or McRae/Burns era. Not one of them said they'd come out to see Elfyn, they all came back to see these cars. Literally the only person I've spoke to who came especially to see Elfyn was the young son (under the age of 10) of a local guy I got talking to in Gwydyr in 2018. Mintexmemory from this forum can probably vouch for this as he was with me!

    I also know a few lapsed fans, to greater or lesser extents, at my work who have followed the sport. I know one attended a Rally GB stage in 2017 after decades away because he wanted to see these cars. Another went to a lot of rallies (national and GB) for years up until around the early 2000s, I'm tempting him back on the basis of seeing these cars. Though he was far more interested in the sound of the Roger Albert Clark than my sales pitch of Rally GB! Additionally, for the few casual observers at my work, it's the hype and videos they've seen on the internet of these cars which has caught their attention. I doubt they could pick Elfyn Evans out of a line up Welshmen...

    That's not to write off the SUVs/CUVs, but they'll have to be done right to achieve the same effect.

    Quote Originally Posted by T16 View Post
    Which stages have you watched at too?
    What's the point of this question? I haven't seen you posting much about attending National rallies, but I wouldn't use that against you to say you're not a proper rally fan...

  5. #545
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Can we leave the personal battles behind and move over to something else? Maybe even *sigh* discuss George Donaldson's idea of moving to R5's.

    What Donaldson suggests is that they put a bigger restrictor to get more horsepower, and just reinforce the parts which wouldn't withstand the increased power. I'm not saying it's impossible, but sure not as simple as he makes it sound like.

    If we think further, would Skoda join in as a manufacturer team? We know how great that car is, how much better than all the other cars. And would Toyota just drop out for a year while developing their R5 car? Would their drivers go to Skoda then? And what kind of a super team that would be...repeat of the VW era?

  6. Likes: cali (6th May 2020)
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    Can we leave the personal battles behind and move over to something else? Maybe even *sigh* discuss George Donaldson's idea of moving to R5's.

    What Donaldson suggests is that they put a bigger restrictor to get more horsepower, and just reinforce the parts which wouldn't withstand the increased power. I'm not saying it's impossible, but sure not as simple as he makes it sound like.

    If we think further, would Skoda join in as a manufacturer team? We know how great that car is, how much better than all the other cars. And would Toyota just drop out for a year while developing their R5 car? Would their drivers go to Skoda then? And what kind of a super team that would be...repeat of the VW era?
    Don't forget VW already have an R5

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    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by satnav View Post
    Don't forget VW already have an R5
    But they don't have an active factory team, and VW has decided not to support any ICE motorsports anymore (although not sure if that applies to Skoda as well?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    Can we leave the personal battles behind and move over to something else? Maybe even *sigh* discuss George Donaldson's idea of moving to R5's.

    What Donaldson suggests is that they put a bigger restrictor to get more horsepower, and just reinforce the parts which wouldn't withstand the increased power. I'm not saying it's impossible, but sure not as simple as he makes it sound like.
    I know we've talked about the R5+ idea before and this forum have written it off, but I'd love to know from someone who ran the actual M-Sport Fiesta R5+ (or someone from M-Sport) how exactly the costs compared to buying/running the regular R5. That wasn't just a case of running a larger air restrictor, there were some mechanical differences, but they weren't extensive. When I asked someone at Goodwood a few years ago who was running one, I was told there wasn't too big a difference in the costs involved between that and the R5. As a spectator though I wasn't really in a position to ask for a breakdown of the costs! I've haven't got the impression that the R5+ Fiesta has been particularly unreliable, though nobody has been trying to get 400bhp out of one...

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    But they don't have an active factory team, and VW has decided not to support any ICE motorsports anymore (although not sure if that applies to Skoda as well?)
    Yes they don't have an active factory team all but in name , VW are still developing this car which could be run as a satellite team by any number of teams.

    Regardless of this I reckon the future will be very different to what we have know in the past not just in motorsport.

  11. #550
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    Quote Originally Posted by the sniper View Post
    This is getting a bit tiresome now...



    If I had to guess I'd imagine that the move to SUV/'CUV' won't be warmly welcomed, but will have little impact on the (already now niche) following of the sport, particularly if their performance is similar to the current level. Those who gave up on rallying because of the cars used gave up a long time ago. I do believe that '17 cars brought some of these people back in though. Given that you can't provide 'evidence' that it'll have no impact, what evidence should Eddie provide?



    Well Neuville has said "I don't know if I'm really interested to drive these cars but we're going to find out."



    I'm afraid this is where I completely disagree with you over Eddie. Were there more Welsh locals out in 2017 than normal just to cheer on Elfyn? I'd say so. But I have no doubt that the '17 cars made a far greater impact on increased spectator numbers and general following of the sport in 2017, and even more so in subsequent years. I've had numerous discussions with random people out on stages over the last few years, with people who either hadn't closely followed the sport or attended stages since the Group B days or McRae/Burns era. Not one of them said they'd come out to see Elfyn, they all came back to see these cars. Literally the only person I've spoke to who came especially to see Elfyn was the young son (under the age of 10) of a local guy I got talking to in Gwydyr in 2018. Mintexmemory from this forum can probably vouch for this as he was with me!

    I also know a few lapsed fans, to greater or lesser extents, at my work who have followed the sport. I know one attended a Rally GB stage in 2017 after decades away because he wanted to see these cars. Another went to a lot of rallies (national and GB) for years up until around the early 2000s, I'm tempting him back on the basis of seeing these cars. Though he was far more interested in the sound of the Roger Albert Clark than my sales pitch of Rally GB! Additionally, for the few casual observers at my work, it's the hype and videos they've seen on the internet of these cars which has caught their attention. I doubt they could pick Elfyn Evans out of a line up Welshmen...

    That's not to write off the SUVs/CUVs, but they'll have to be done right to achieve the same effect.



    What's the point of this question? I haven't seen you posting much about attending National rallies, but I wouldn't use that against you to say you're not a proper rally fan...

    Sorry, not going to reply to the points you've made. I get what you're saying about it becoming tiresome and yes, I have a part in that, but you've answered on Eddie's behalf and I still don't see it differently than I did initially. But in the interest of it not getting any more tiresome, happy to leave it.

  12. Likes: the sniper (5th May 2020)

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