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  1. #2271
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    Unregistered
    Chassis no. PT 8220E 00001

    - The most powerful 2WD Group B car
    - Ex-Carlos Sainz
    - The ultimate R5 Turbo
    - Superbly preserved

    The Renault 5 Turbo came about thanks to Jean Terramorsi, the deputy head of product management for Renault responsible for limited-production models. In 1977, he conceived a sporting version of the company's star, the little Renault 5, but simply improving its handling or power output - as with the R5 Alpine - was not enough. Terramorsi felt he needed to turn it into a true rally car, using Renault's key technology: the turbocharger.
    With its mid-mounted turbocharged engine, strengthened chassis and special suspension, its steel, polyester and aluminium body and its spectacular rear, far wider than the front, the R5 Turbo, presented to the press in 1978, was the subject of great passion. The first version (Group 4) in 1980 won the Monte-Carlo Rally and the Tour de Corse. Just 20 examples of the next version, logically named the "Tour de Corse" (TDC), were built for the 1983 season, in accordance with the new regulations for Group B, which replaced Group 4.
    It soon became clear, however, that the car was outclassed by its rivals and a radical re-think was called for. Patrick Landon (head of Renault Sport's rally department) received the whole-hearted backing of Gérard Larrousse, the managing director of Renault Sport. A four-wheel drive model, like the Audi Quattro or forthcoming Peugeot T16, was a possibility, but the Group B regulations required that a series of 200 cars be made available through the dealer network in order for 20 cars to be built for competition! It was inconceivable, given the budget allocated by Renault.
    The difficulty of the TDC was that the rear wheels were too small. To fit larger wheels, Renault had to increase the engine capacity from 1397 to 1527cc, with the help of a crankshaft with a 5mm longer stroke, and a 1mm larger bore. With the multiplication factor for turbo engines, this let it exceed the limit for the 2-litre class. A series of 200 R5 Turbo 2s was offered to customers with a larger engine, the type 8221 instead of the 8220 of the R5 Turbo. It should be noted that this limited run of Turbo 2s had an aluminium roof, as on the R5 Turbo "1".
    But the changes did not stop with the engine: the future Maxi 5 was a complete reworking of the TDC: the front and rear wishbones, hub carriers, anti-roll bars and shock absorbers were all different. The gearbox had a magnesium sump and the car's unique bodyshell was strengthened. The brakes were initially identical to the TDC but the diameter was later increased to 299mm. François Bernard was responsible for the chassis and Philippe Coblence for the engine. Coblence drew on Renault's research in F1 into fuel-injection, the ignition system, turbocharging and the air-to-water intercooler made by SECAN, a subsidiary of Chausson.
    In particular, the injection of water into the intake manifold reduced the temperature of the air by 10°. The large SECAN intercooler specific to the model was relocated from the left rear wing to above the gearbox. The turbo meanwhile was moved to the right in the wing, with a special mechanism to limit the intense heat produced, and the exhaust was routed ahead of the right rear wheel, to reduce the heat generated in the engine bay. The engine now produced 350bhp at 6500rpm, with very high maximum torque of 311lb·ft, 72lb·ft more than the TDC!
    For homologation reasons, 20 Maxis were assembled, but thanks to the valuable information provided by Patrick Landon, it can be stated that when the 20 cars were presented to the FFSA, ten were assembled "dry", with no fluids, and were stripped down immediately afterwards. Only ten cars were in running order and were sold with a certificate enabling them to be registered (Archives of P. Landon):

    Series no. 701: registered 7499 YA 91, works car in Philips colours, sold to Dominique de Meyer in 1986
    Series no. 702: registered 9489 YB 91, works car in Philips colours, won the Tour de Corse in 1985
    Series no. 703: registered 5555 SP 30, sold to the Gard Departmental Council for Philippe Touren
    Series no. 704: registered VA 4650 M (SP), supplied to FASA Spain for Carlos Sainz
    Series no. 705: registered 27 FJE 75, supplied to DIAC Renault for François Chatriot
    Series no. 706: registered 194 FGL 75, supplied to Renault Compiègne for François Chatriot
    Series no. 708: registered 367 YC 91, works car in Philips colours, sold to Pascal Thomasse in 1986 with the identification plates of no. 701
    Series no. 709: registered 40840 (AND), sold to Gérard De la Casa in Andorra
    Series no. 710: registered 4838 TE 14, sold to Gérard Paquet
    Series no. 712: registered 21 RG 28, sold to Renault Chartres for Didier Auriol
    711 was a kit kept by Landon's team, 713 was a kit sold to Renault Chartres and 707 was a kit supplied to either FASA or DIAC.

    The semi-official teams, such as Renault Chartres, DIAC or FASA Renault Spain in effect received a complete car which could be registered and a second as a kit ... Renault Chartres thus competed with two cars with the same registration number for Didier Auriol: one (712) sponsored by 33 Export, the other (713) by Philips. For Renault's DIAC subsidiary, which specialised in car finance, François Chatriot's first car (706) caught fire on the Rallye des Garrigues in 1985. It was immediately replaced in competition by 705, then completely rebuilt using the spare bodyshell. Renault Classic still owns four Maxis, including the real DIAC car (705), which has never left its reserve collection, and two "Philips" cars, one of which has the registration papers of 702.
    It should not be forgotten that half the Maxis were stripped down for parts! The numerous bodyshells and mechanical components available during the Maxis' time in competition meant they could be rebuilt from standard R5 Turbo bodies, Maxi bodies damaged in accidents or even from new Maxi bodyshells still available when Group B came to an end. It is important therefore to be able to trace the history of these legendary cars, which symbolise the wild years of Group B. We will look now at the history of Carlos Sainz' cars, including the very fine example from Lohéac.

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  3. #2272
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    THE MAXIS OF CARLOS SAINZ

    Carlos Sainz, the famous Spanish driver, began his career with a Renault 5 TS. Thanks to Bernard Tramont, a former semi-official driver for Alpine and FASA Renault, Renault's subsidiary at Valladolid in Spain, he was quickly able to move up to the Group 4 R5 Turbo (VA 6658 I) and then an R5 TDC (VA 5060 I).
    In spring 1985, he naturally took delivery of the Maxi 5 no. 704. The car was not registered straightaway, as it was not yet homologated in Spain. Until April 1986 it was driven with a temporary registration valid for six months, on red plates. Sainz competed in the first part of the 1985 season with his TDC. In June, he made his first outing with the Maxi 5 on the Rally Villa de Llanes, where his main opponent was Bruno Saby, driving a Peugeot T16. They fought hard, right up to the moment when the Spanish driver came off the road, seriously damaging the front of his car. The car was repaired and the second bodyshell, supplied as a kit, was fully assembled so that FASA could finish the 1985 season and start the next with two cars, as Renault Chartres, DIAC and Renault Sport had done, as Landon confirmed. It was a wise decision, as the Maxi was entered in October 1985 in the Rally San Froilán, which again ended in an accident! It was a painful start with the Group B car for the Spanish driver ...
    In November, however, for the Rally Valeo Madrid, FASA entered a Maxi with a different temporary registration, 2M 3536P. This confirms that two cars were available, as the car damaged on the San Froilán was registered 2M 2527P and both numbers were valid during the second quarter, i.e. at the same time. Sainz finished third and was runner-up in the 1985 Spanish Rally Championship.
    The new season began in February 1986 with the Rally Costa Brava, where the drivers were met with snow! FASA eventually obtained the car's homologation for road use in March and it was allocated the well-known registration number VA 4650 M and the chassis number PT 8220E 00001 (PT for prototype), which can be seen on the Maxi from Lohéac. Renault's chassis number VF1822100F0000704 was thus not used for this exceptional homologation granted by the Spanish authorities.
    In 1986, Sainz competed in 15 rallies. On the Rally de Llanes on 1 June 1986, when he was in the lead with VA 4650 M, he skidded coming down the Fito on some worn-out tarmac and ran off the road, just as he had the previous year! He hit a tree trunk hard head-on. The front of the car was completely destroyed. Christian Pouchelon was present and confirmed the story. For Landon it was a miracle that Sainz escaped unhurt!
    For the next rally, in the Canary Islands, the second car was used, as can be seen from its temporary registration from the first quarter of 1986, 2M 4747P. It had an air vent on the roof (which was present throughout the season until Group B was banned at the end of the year) and was forced to retire due to engine problems. For the rest of the season, Sainz used the second car (with a new temporary registration valid for six months from July 1986, 2M 5986P) and then the Maxi which had been damaged on the Rally de Llanes and had been rebuilt with a new bodyshell, making its reappearance in August registered VA 4650 M.
    The strongest evidence that two Maxis were used came in November, when Sainz competed in three rallies: he drove in turn the car registered on temporary plates, then the car registered as a prototype and finally - for the last event of the season - once again the car on temporary plates, which had been serviced.
    It is clear that for the 1986 season two Maxis were used. The Spanish FASA team did not want to incur any problems with the local authorities and therefore used the registration papers corresponding to each of the two cars. As we explained above, that was not always the case for some of the French teams, who used the same registration papers interchangeably for the two cars they had prepared. It seems very likely that the Maxi kept at the Manoir de l'Automobile was the car registered VA 4650 M used for the latter part of the 1986 season. The complete list of Sainz' entries with the Renault 5 Maxi can be consulted in the online version of the auction catalogue.
    In 1986, Sainz won four rallies, came second on four occasions and retired six times, again finishing as runner-up in the Spanish Rally Championship.

  4. #2273
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    AFTER SAINZ

    One of Sainz' two Maxis was then assigned to Guillermo Barreras, an official FASA Renault rallycross driver. The Maxi was equipped with a front drive axle to convert it to four-wheel drive ... With the car still registered VA 4650 M, Barreras finished second in the Spanish Gravel Rally Championship in 1988 and fourth in 1989. After restoring the car completely in 2WD configuration and Sainz' colours, he sold it to Olivier Quesnel in July 1990, as can be seen from the correspondence on file.
    The second Maxi was sold to Alvarez Santiago in the Canaries, who also converted it to four-wheel drive for use on gravel. It too was restored in 2WD spec, in FASA Renault's colours. It was offered for sale a few years ago and is still in Spain.
    The mechanic sent by Patrick Landon to help FASA was Christian Pouchelon, a member of Renault's motorsport team since the 1970s! He shared with us his memories and confirmed some aspects of the history of Sainz' Maxis. In particular, he authenticated this Maxi as the Group B car which he supported for Renault Sport and expressed his conviction that it was the car Sainz used at the end of the 1986 season. We cannot state categorically whether the car from the museum in Lohéac is the one registered as a prototype or on temporary plates, but the fact that the number PR8220E00001 is stamped on its chassis and that the car was sold by Barreras to Quesnel implies that it is in all likelihood the car registered as a prototype as VA 4650 M and not the car only registered on temporary plates.
    Photocopies of the Spanish prototype registration document are provided with the car: the prototype chassis number PR 8220E00001 shown on it is the one stamped on the right rear suspension turret of the car from the Manoir de l'Automobile.

    DESCRIPTION OF THE CARLOS SAINZ R5 MAXI TURBO FROM THE LOHÉAC MUSEUM

    Some specific features may be noted compared with a Group 4 or "Tour de Corse" car:

    - Reinforced bodyshell unique to the Maxi with aluminium roof and doors, Kevlar bonnet and wings, specific rear bodywork to improve flow to the large air filter and increase downforce, and eight lights at the front
    - SECAN air-to-water intercooler positioned above the gearbox
    - Injection of water into the intake manifold (F1 technology)
    - Specific type of turbocharger installed to the right of the engine bay, with no waste gate (the valve to release excess pressure), this being located directly on the exhaust manifold (specific to the Maxi)
    - Exhaust tailpipe in front of the right rear wheel
    - Fuel filler cap in the left wing
    - Strengthened magnesium gearbox with specific ratios and limited-slip differential
    - Dry-sump lubrication with sump to the right and specific valve timing cover with chain-driven oil pump
    - Specific pedal set with dual master cylinders as fitted to single-seat racing cars
    - Ventilated brakes all-round with four-piston callipers
    - Bilstein shock absorbers, suspension wishbones front and rear and hub carriers, all specific to the Maxi
    - 11.5in wheels at the back (TDC: 10in) and 8in at the front (TDC: 7in)
    - Cut-out switch specific to the Renault Sport R5 Turbos, exactly as fitted to the works Alpine berlinettes from 1972 to 1976!
    - Windscreen wipers with new mechanism by Marchal fitted differently to the other standard or competition R5 Turbos. It should be noted that not all Maxis had this mechanism, but Sainz' car does
    - Vent on the roof to supply fresh air to the crew: this appeared on the Rally Islas Canarias after Renault Sport had it approved by the FIA.
    Exceptional rally cars, Maxi 5 Turbos rarely come up for sale. This is the official car of Renault Spain and was driven by Carlos Sainz, who, it should not be forgotten, was twice World Rally Champion with Toyota in 1990 and 1992 and runner-up on four occasions ... This impressive looking Group B car was restored by its second driver, Guillermo Barreras, at the end of his career in rallycross in 1989, starting from a bare shell and using original parts from the period. The Renault Sport mechanic Christian Pouchelon has confirmed that the car is in its original specification; it is a spectacular car with which to take part in historic motorsport events. In addition, this car's continuous history is exceptional and rare for a vehicle of this kind (FASA Renault for Sainz, the official Renault driver Barreras, the museum at Lohéac).

  5. #2274
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    Chassis n°015

    - The best result for an RS200 in the World Rally Championship
    - Went almost straight from a rally stage to the museum
    - Exceptionally well preserved
    - Designed by top English engineers
    - Ex-Kalle Grundel, ex-Stig Blomqvist

    The Ford RS200 is the only car to have been designed from the ground up to compete in Group B, with unique bodywork unlike any production model. Its only fault was that it was introduced too late to play a leading part.
    A delay due to the fact that the programme was implemented after the Escort RS1700 Turbo, which was initially intended to fly the flag for the company. After the Escort proved a dead end, Walter Hayes, the head of Ford, brought Stuart Turner back to run the motorsport department in 1983 and develop the car it needed to win. For Turner (who had dreamt up the GT70), it had to have four-wheel drive and a mid-mounted turbocharged engine. After failing to poach Gordon Murray from Brabham (faced with opposition from Bernie Ecclestone), Turner turned to other top-flight engineers. He selected the proposals made by John Wheeler and Tony Southgate (who were known for their work in F1) and turned to Ghia to design the body, insisting that the windscreen should not be set at too steep an angle, to avoid reflections. The car's monocoque structure used cutting-edge solutions and materials, employing fibreglass, carbon, aluminium and honeycomb sections. Logically, the engine was the Cosworth BDT (Belt Drive, T-type) intended for the Escort RS 1700 but enlarged to 1803 cc; this developed 250 bhp in roadgoing trim and up to 450 bhp in rally spec. Although the car's overall layout resembled the Peugeot 205 T16, it differed in terms of the longitudinal installation of the engine and its transmission, with the gearbox at the front and two driveshafts.
    In March 1984, the car was presented to Ford's directors, who gave their approval for five prototypes to be built, and then unveiled to the public at the Turin Show in November that year. Although it was initially envisaged that the car would take part in the World Rally Championship from mid-1985, problems in its development delayed work on the project and the start of production of the 200 cars required for homologation, which would only be completed at the end of 1985.
    The RS200 eventually made its first appearance in the World Rally Championship in February 1986 on the Swedish Rally, where the local driver Kalle Grundel won several stages and finished third, behind Kankkunen's 205 T16 and Alen's Delta S4. It was a promising start, but the team's joy was short-lived. During the next event, the Rallye de Portugal, Joaquim Santos ran off the road in his RS200 to avoid some reckless spectators and three people lost their lives.
    The RS200 was only seen again on two rounds of the Championship: the Acropolis Rally, where Blomqvist and Grundel were in the lead before retiring with transmission problems, and the RAC Rally, where Grundel achieved the best result, finishing fifth.
    The end of Group B after the 1986 season brought the RS200's career in rallying to a close before it had the chance to realise its full potential. Before this interruption, Ford had been working on an 'Evolution' model with a 2137 cc engine, the BDT-E, designed by Brian Hart and capable of producing 800 bhp. 20 such cars were built, but none took part in the Championship.
    After the ban on Group B, the RS200 enjoyed a new lease of life, notably in Rallycross, where its agile handling worked wonders.

    The car for sale

    After Grundel's third place on the Swedish Rally (the best result achieved by an RS200 in the WRC), the car we are offering for sale (chassis no. 015, originally registered B200 YOO) took part in 1986 in the Rothmans Circuit of Ireland (where it retired) and the Audi Sport Rally, which it won, driven by Stig Blomqvist.

    It was then bought by a Norwegian enthusiast, from whom Olivier Quesnel acquired it, as he explained to us: "I had met the Norwegian driver in Rallycross, where competed with the RS200 Evos in the Glomma Papp team. He had bought Grundel's Swedish Rally car but didn't drive it in competition as it was an older model.
    I offered to buy it from him, but at first he refused, and I had to use all my powers of persuasion to convince him! I went to see him in Norway and remember it was snowing when we landed: I thought the plane was going to skid ..."
    A document dated 15 September 1989, on Glomma Papp letterhead, confirms the transaction and the price paid. After this, the car was shipped back to France and put on display in the museum.
    We have a document drawn up by Graham Robson, the motoring writer and specialist in the model (he was a close friend of Stuart Graham, who involved him in its development from 1983), stating that 148 RS200s survive and listing chassis no. 015 as a left-hand drive works car for the competition.
    Its brief career in competition explains this car's exceptional original condition, and it still bears the number 8 from the Swedish Rally, as if it had just left the world of rallying. With the distinction of being the best-placed RS200 in international motorsport, this is one of the finest examples of this impressive yet little known model, developed by the most brilliant engineers of its time, which never had the chance to fulfil its potential. The significance of this opportunity will surely not be lost on enthusiasts.

    https://www.artcurial.com/en/lot-198...6#popin-active

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  7. #2275
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    RS200 for me, please

  8. Likes: dimviii (14th January 2021),EstWRC (14th January 2021),Sulland (14th January 2021)
  9. #2276
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    RS200 for me, please
    cheaper one also according to estimated prices.
    really cant understand why is cheaper,as it is at a very good example,without extended rebuilds,and at totally factory spec.

    another point is that i cant understand how a museum will offer for sale all these icons.Really strange!
    Last edited by dimviii; 14th January 2021 at 11:45.

  10. #2277
    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    Here is by the way Václav Pech driving the RS200 from Jiří Jírovec's collection in 2014 Eifel Rally Festival.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPOWVF7wUwI
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

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  12. #2278
    Senior Member Rallyper's Avatar
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    I saw those live in Rally Sweden 1986. It was nice. Remember especially Kalle Grundel in a junction day 1...
    "Reis vas pät pat kaar vas kut"
    Tommi Mäkinen, back in the years...

  13. Likes: AnttiL (14th January 2021),Mirek (14th January 2021),NickRally (14th January 2021),pantealex (14th January 2021),Sulland (14th January 2021)
  14. #2279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rallyper View Post
    I saw those live in Rally Sweden 1986. It was nice. Remember especially Kalle Grundel in a junction day 1...
    i was lucky too to watch these beasts live at various Acropolis editions.

    There is a story about a secret McRae test
    -------------------------------------------------------------

    September 15 was the anniversary of Colin McRae's death. Undisputed idol of crowds, the flying Scot made his aggression and ruthlessness the main peculiarities of him as a driver. When the boy from Lanark got behind the wheel, he threw his heart over the obstacle, and this approach of his allowed him to win a world rally title but also to throw away many occasions with even very bad and dangerous accidents. Most importantly, McRae was able to win the hearts of rally fans.

    Today we bring you in this article a story written by an anonymous professional photographer who frequented races and rallies until the end of the 90 '. We recovered this story from an abandoned Forum, a pearl that he deserved to be published and brought to light. McRae himself, at the time Subaru official driver, also starred.

    Fasten your seat belts, let's go!

    “… In addition to the F1 GPs, I often went to Catalunya for the winter tests; It was on one of these occasions that I was informed by a French photographer friend of mine that Colin McRae the next day would test the new car for the World Rally along some stretches of the Rally des Garrigues, a French race valid for the European disputed between Nimes, where the race direction was, and Montpellier.
    I had already taken all the photos I needed of the tests, I notified my editorial staff (say that something important had happened the next day) and I got in the car to reach the presumed test area.
    I had served three or four times in that rally so I knew the roads well enough, but it was like looking for a needle in a haystack.
    I took a room in a country that I thought was in the most favorable position for the next day's research; I asked if they had seen any assistance vans around, but the answer was no.
    I made a plan for the next day including all the PS traits I knew; I had breakfast and left; I realized that it was an almost impossible undertaking, but something told me that I would succeed; I walked around all morning, asking bars or gas stations if they had noticed anything; the answer was always the same: NO.
    I was about to lose hope, when in a small street in a town from which one of the PS I knew departed I noticed a "suspicious" van; it was parked, there was no one, but inside there were cards of unequivocal rallying origin.
    I began to walk the path of the hypothetical tests and in fact after a few kilometers I found a car across the street that blocked the passage; the tests always took place in this way; a stretch of road with little traffic and without side access was chosen; it was closed using two cars that blocked the passage; every 15, 20 minutes the tests were suspended and the cars that had arrived in the meantime were allowed to pass; all obviously without any permission !!!
    I waited a few minutes and they let me pass; so I arrived at the place where they had arranged all the assistance; as soon as they saw me they certainly didn't jump for joy; McRae who was anything but an affable person sent a few accidents and walked away; Grist, the navigator, instead greeted me, but he made it clear that my arrival was not ... very welcome.
    He immediately told me that they didn't want "technical" photos; I replied that that was their right, but that it was my right to take pictures while they were testing the car because I was on a road open to traffic and they agreed.
    After a few minutes they started shooting again and I photographed; I made three or four passes in both directions, changing position, then suddenly, immediately after the car had passed from where I was, I felt a great braking and a violent impact; McRae had hit an embankment, severely damaging the car.
    The mechanics ran to the place by car and when I arrived on foot they lined up preventing me from photographing in a threatening way; someone tried to snatch my camera; Grist intervened, calming them, took me aside and took me to their headquarters.
    He offered me a coffee and asked me "please" to avoid posting photos that would make it clear of the accident; in return he gave me some of their technical images that were top secret at the time.
    Whenever I met Grist in the following years, he always greeted me with cordiality, McRae never hinted at a greeting (he had never done it elsewhere, not even before this episode). "

    PS: if the author recognizes himself in the story, please come forward

    https://www.rally.it/2020/10/il-test-segreto-di-mcrae

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  16. #2280
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    Guys i found an amazing Daniel Grataloup interview,that worth to google translate.
    Plenty of comments about his relationship with Delecour,and the well known incident about Delecour and Panizzi at 206 wrc era.

    Grab a beer/s and start reading. Probably the best interview i ve ever read.

    http://www.estautomag.com/index.php/...on-vrai-moteur

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