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12th October 2011, 15:03 #1
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Problems with visibility in a F1 car
I thought it would be better to start a separate thread as the other one relates to Lewis in Singapore and is now bringing in elements of the Cockpit / Coupe thread.
To recap, Lewis has claimed problems with visibility have contributed to a couple of recent accidents. In my opinion, the problem may incorporate the Bolster and sidepods of the survival cell, the restriction in sideways head movement from the HANS, the size, position and stability of the mirrors and even the different seating positions of different drivers.
This video gives a nice overview of HANS and some idea on the length of the straps and what movement they offer. An insight into the HANS | Videos | Features | F1 Pulse
Credit to AndyL for this diagram:
This image gives an idea on the side visibility on Lewis's car.
It looks impossible to see any car past the visibility of his wing mirrors until it's wheel to wheel.
It seems to me that there needs to be some adjustment of the rules regarding visibility.
Possibly any cockpit materials above eye-line to be transparent and larger, better mirrors. Don't know about heads up displays etc but worth discussing?
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12th October 2011, 15:57 #2
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Whitmarsh and indeed others has said the other issue is vibration so even if they can 'see' with a larger wing mirror the exact position of car is still difficult to see. Factor in that at times these cars are going fast and reactions times are minute and it's obvious there's some problems.
It's not just Lewis either...thinking back to Buemi/Heidfeld this year, Schumacher, Kovi/Webber etc..:champion: WRC3 championship, WRC4 championship, WRC4 PCWRC, WRC4 ERC
Winner - TRD2 Bathurst:burnout:
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12th October 2011, 16:06 #3
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Sometimes too, it comes down to if you don't know, don't go. Take the Hamilton/Kobayashi incident from the top of the hill at Spa. Not knowing if you're sure that you're clear, how much lap time would have been lost by using discretion and taking a shallower line into the corner?
Anyway, it's a valid point...Head & Neck safety measures do reduce perhiprial vision. Senna, for instance, was dangerously exposed in the cockpit but some of his moves might have not worked if he couldn't see what he was able to see out the sides of the cut-down cockpit.Formula Platypus 2012
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12th October 2011, 17:06 #4
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Houston , we have a problem .
The safety cell isn't so safe .
So far , I've only heard the comment that morrors need to be stiffer mounted , for anti-vibration , from the F1 people .
And , not much about the bolster height , or the big , fat blind spot .
It's a blind spot so big , we should be calling the frontal view , the un-blind spot , because it's so much smaller .
They can't see behind , because they design the mirror so flimsy , it vibrates so much that you can't see dick behind you , if he's there .
And , that's perfectly ok , because when you're at rest , you can read your obituary , if it's written backwards for you .
It's unsafe without mirrors , apparently , but not unsafe if the mirrors you do have , are useless .
Isn't there a law suit in that somewhere ?
And , those bolsters , there to keep a driver safe , make accidental collision more likely , as it makes them blind to thier opponent .
It's like replacing the side windows of your car with steel , and feeling safer as a result .
That's just stupid .
If a monkey like me can see this , what the hell are the technical working group doing , not dealing with it in any way ?
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12th October 2011, 17:33 #5
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Originally Posted by I am evil Homer
With the problem of vibration, this is not a new one whether in F1 or even riding a normal performance motorcycle. With the technology around at the moment, it would seem that it's time to look at new display options. Perhaps a small flip canopy displaying a left and right pan of the car to assist the mirrors?
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12th October 2011, 17:38 #6
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Originally Posted by Bagwan
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12th October 2011, 20:15 #7
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It may be time to mandate cameras. I'm pretty sure they use them in JGTC.
Formula Platypus 2012
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12th October 2011, 23:38 #8
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This is pretty straightforward isn't it, or am I being silly?
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13th October 2011, 13:30 #9
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Originally Posted by Knock-on
It's just that "they" seems to be everybody involved .
We hear about this issue in just about every race , where "I didn't see him coming" has become a valid excuse .
And yet , the FIA , and the technical working group seems to do nothing to address it .
They did , a few years ago , make the mirrors bigger , but they teams make the high mounted item as light as possible , and it vibrates the image to the point it is useless .
Even if it wasn't useless , it only shows what's happening out to the outside edge of the rear wheel .
If we only look at this aspect , we have an organization that makes rules , and then allows them , knowingly , to be ignored , as , clearly , they know the mirrors to be ineffective .
We also have an organization that makes parts that they know are there for safe operation of the vehicle , capable of speeds in excess of 200mph , yet designs them too light to be effective .
Isn't there something that's a bit criminal about all this ?
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13th October 2011, 14:53 #10
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Drivers should just use their brains and/or be more aware of their surroundings.
"But it aint how hard you hit, it's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward. How much you can take, and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done." Rocky.
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