Top 10 greatest drivers of all time.

[D-Type]

Good point - don't forget the rally drivers!

[Rollo]

Move Tom up a notch on your list - he's actually won Le Mans 8 times - 6 in a row from 00 to 05.

I hadn't ranked them, they were just on the list. Ranking them would be nigh on impossible.

[FAL]

The problem I have with Loeb being described as greatest rally driver of all is that his peers never really conceeded they could not beat him if on equal terms. That is not the case with Eric Carlsson (early 1960s) or Timo Makinen (mid 1960s, and to a lesser extent early 70s), where their peers simply accepted they would be beaten by them if their cars survived.
The jury has to be out on Henri Toivonen too - he may well have become the greatest if he had lived but he was only just showing it and what too many consider one of his greatest performances simply wasn't if you analyse it objectively.

[Bezza]

The only thing I'm always assured of reading these lisst is Senna being grossly overrated, and prost grossly underrated.

Anyway, Schumacher was better than senna when schumacher was just his first year or two into F1. which is when senna was supposed to be in his prime F1 years. If wet behind the ears schumacher is beating you prime years with an equal or worse carl there is no way you can be better than Schumacher.

Clearly he is not over-rated if people are voting for him - they just don't have the same opinion as you!

It is impossible in my eyes to rank Schumacher above Senna as Schumacher never had a competitive team-mate that was allowed to race him / get access to the same car updates. Rubens Barrichello was probably his best team-mate, and although a good driver, is nowhere near a great. Senna had Prost in 88 and 89, and Berger in 90 to 92.

You can't really back up your statement that Schumacher was better than Senna, either. They had different cars. In 92 Senna won 3, Schumacher 1. In 93, Senna won 5, Schumacher 1. How that equates to Schumacher "being better" you need to enlighten me!


Here we go - my top 10. I am heavily F1 focused, I don't watch of other echelons to be honest. I cannot put oval drivers into my list as in my opinion, the skill required is far, far less than series with proper racing tracks - notably F1 as the pinnacle, but also Sports Cars and Touring Cars, and of course Rallying.

1. Ayrton Senna - he is the best driver of all time, his speed over a single lap was breathtaking.

2. Jim Clark - completely dominated the 1960's. Unless his car failed, he won. Barely had to pass anybody because he was so fast!

3. Jackie Stewart - incredibly quick, and very intelligent. His pursuit of improved safety was commendable.

4. Graham Hill - one reason here - Triple Crown. Nobody else has done this - will indeed anybody else ever do it?

5. Mario Andretti - fantastic driver in F1 and had the rare ability to win in pretty much anything!

6. John Surtees - the only man to won world championships on two wheels and four, that stands him out from the rest.

7. Juan Manuel Fangio - brilliant driver, dominated the 1950's

8. Alain Prost - clearly a great driver, not as flamboyant as others, but consistency of his driving was sublime

9. Niki Lauda - to recover from his crash in 1976 and win another championship was stunning, and then to win again 7 years later!

10. Fernando Alonso - the best of our current drivers deserves his place here. Beat Schumacher in 2006 by being a better driver in a lesser car.

[wedge]

Tazio Nuvolari - Godfather and original Drift King. Driving God in the pre-war years.

Jim Clark - quick in anything. Need I say more?

AJ Foyt, Dan Gurney, Mario Andretti - the diversity of the American and European scene, and the hands-on can-do attitude of the first two.

Senna - the purist.

Dale Earnhardt Sr - similar to Senna: dominant, hard racer, bad boy and still had respect from his peers.

Richard Petty - The King.

Klaus Ludwig - top, top driver in tin tops and sportscars. Multiple Le Mans and DTM titles. Sublime to watch.

Peter Brock - Peter Perfect, King of the Mountain, multiple Bathurst champ.

[BDunnell]

The jury has to be out on Henri Toivonen too - he may well have become the greatest if he had lived but he was only just showing it and what too many consider one of his greatest performances simply wasn't if you analyse it objectively.

You mean the 1980 RAC win, I presume?

[FAL]

You mean the 1980 RAC win, I presume?

Yes - I guess it would be hi jacking this thread to go into it deeply. It might also be argued that the 85 RAC was a more impressive result but I think that was as much luck in multiple offs adding up to slightly less than those of the 2nd and 3rd finishers!

[BDunnell]

Yes - I guess it would be hi jacking this thread to go into it deeply. It might also be argued that the 85 RAC was a more impressive result but I think that was as much luck in multiple offs adding up to slightly less than those of the 2nd and 3rd finishers!

I agree completely.

[driveace]

Well Keith,the RAC win in the Lancia,(a new car,that he and Markku had only driven briefly before the event),was one of the worst RAC,s for sheet ice,and Henri rolled,the Lancia too ,on his way to victory,I also think that the result was a great achievement,as the car was supposed to be a bast*rd to drive.The 1980,RAC win was not as gifted as people think,as Hannu realised that there was no way he could win,and although he wanted Henri to have the win,as a repayment for the help Pauli ,gave Hannu in his early rally years,unless Henri went out hannu knew it was behond his grasp.But Paul will tell me if I am wrong

[FAL]

Yes, the thing about 85 RAC was that Toivonen came into what was most definitely Alen's "own" team then and beat him with the new car. I watched Alen in the Worcester service area shout "Eh Giorgio!" - and Pianta came running and spent ages discussing set up etc. whilst Toivonen was ignored - but I think it was luck with offs (and of course Kankuhnen towing him back on) that won it.
In 80, Dunlop lost it for Mikkola rather than anyone else winning it. Paul White says Henri was inspired in Grisedale but he was behind Kullang's Ascona and Waldegard's Celica, neither of which combination of driver/car was then seen as the fastest, when they had their problems there. Kleber, Michelin and Pirelli all starred in the most open RAC ever. Dunlop didn't...