A question concernig historic lap times.

[Spiderman]

Maybe someone can help me. In 1979 and 1980 IndyCar and F1 raced in Watkins Glen. Did they do the same track configuration and if yes, what were the times for pole position and fastest lap in the race?

[Hoop-98]

Maybe someone can help me. In 1979 and 1980 IndyCar and F1 raced in Watkins Glen. Did they do the same track configuration and if yes, what were the times for pole position and fastest lap in the race?

CART was a lot shorter, F1 was similar configuration., about 3/100 of a mile shorter.

Pole
Driver Italy Bruno Giacomelli Alfa Romeo
Time 1:33.291
Fastest lap
Driver Australia Alan Jones Williams-Ford
Time 1:34.068 on lap 44

CART ran the Grand Prix course in 81,
Pole was 1:43.4

http://www.ultimateracinghistory.com...p?raceid=10205

http://www.ultimateracinghistory.com...hp?trackid=165

rh

[Spiderman]

CART was a lot shorter, F1 was similar configuration., about 3/100 of a mile shorter.

Pole
Driver Italy Bruno Giacomelli Alfa Romeo
Time 1:33.291
Fastest lap
Driver Australia Alan Jones Williams-Ford
Time 1:34.068 on lap 44

CART ran the Grand Prix course in 81,
Pole was 1:43.4

http://www.ultimateracinghistory.com...p?raceid=10205

http://www.ultimateracinghistory.com...hp?trackid=165

rh

Thanks!

Did it rain in the indycar qualifyings. Or were the cars 10 seconds slower in reality?

[Hoop-98]

Thanks!

Did it rain in the indycar qualifyings. Or were the cars 10 seconds slower in reality?

Nope no rain..

[e2mtt]

Just a little thing to put lap times in perspective:... BMW's X5 (the sport utility) can lap Nurburgring faster than Jim Clark did in a '60s F1 car.

Cars, including race cars, have gotten a LOT faster. In 1990, a Corvette went 0-to-60 in 5.2, now they are doing it in 3.7.

Of course they've gotten a lot safer too... in 1980 hitting the wall often mean months in rehab, now the worry is getting the backup car set up in time to qualify later the same day.

[Hoop-98]

perspective:

At CART/Indycar's peak in 2002, they were about 6 seconds off F1 (Montreal)m about 15 MPH down on trap speeds. The current indycar is ~2 seconds a lap slower than the 2003 CART on a 80 second lap.

If we get a 700 BHP/1400 pound car in 2012, it will likely be the quickest (Road/Street) Indycar ever. Then we will find many other things to whine about I am sure

rh

[Civic]

Would've been interesting if F1 and CART ran Montreal the same year in 1996 or 1997.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Would've been interesting if F1 and CART ran Montreal the same year in 1996 or 1997.

The thing is, CART got within 6 seconds of f1 at Montreal...and that is a circuit that in a sense is the worst possible place for an Indy car to try to stay with an f1 car. I would have loved to have seen a Lola from the peak of CART go around Spa....all those fast corners and the big power would likely give it sections where it was faster than the f1 car.

I think it is in the brakes where the Indy car suffers...that and the weight. The carbon fiber and ceramics in an F1 car really give it that ability to maximize straights....and make the racing dull since you rarely see good braking duels in F1 anymore...

[DBell]

Just a little thing to put lap times in perspective:... BMW's X5 (the sport utility) can lap Nurburgring faster than Jim Clark did in a '60s F1 car.

This is hard to quantify because the Nordschleife has changed so much from the 60's. Besides the changes such as curbing, widening, guardrails and the shaving off of some of the famous crests, the layout was drastically altered in the early 80's when the current GP course was constructed. The original straight where the start line and the pits were is gone, plus the north loop and the parallel straight the ran behind the original pits. This took well over a mile of the old configuration. No matter what configuration is run now, it's very different than the one F1 raced on back in the 60's.

[Hoop-98]

Would've been interesting if F1 and CART ran Montreal the same year in 1996 or 1997.

They are/were quite different animals. The CART/Indycar was 500 pounds heavier on the grid but was allowed much more aero. The F1 was much more of an accell/decel car while the CART/Indycar was more of a momentum car.

Thus the large differences in trap speeds. The thing is, neither car was/is comparable. Both have been slowed way down by rules, just different approaches.

Comparing CART/Indy to F1 since the 80's is like saying a Seiko keeps as good a time as a Rolex for 1/100 the cost, just different worlds entirely.

imho
rh