From the mind of Bruton Smith

[call_me_andrew]

On his support of green, white, checkered finishes:

“We owe that to those race fans. Race fans – we’ve polled them over the years – they want to see a green-flag finish. Iam a strong advocate of that. We used two of them yesterday … we still had one to go. I am a very strong advocate because this gives those race fans what they paid for and what the richly deserve and that is a finish under green.”

Putting aside who exactly this "we" is, how does anyone "owe" the fans a close finish? Track owners "owe" the fans a place to sit and a place to relieve themselves. NASCAR "owes" the fans impartiality. But the quality of racing is really up to the drivers.

When I buy tickets to a baseball game, the home team doesn't "owe" me a victory; they "owe" me 9 innings of hard work. I may not enjoy the outcome of the game, but it's fine as long as I enjoy how "we" got to the outcome.

[71Fan]

Smith has probably always felt that it was track owner/promotor who owed the fans a good race *along* with the sanctioning body. But I imagine that he thinks the promotor is more indebted to the fans in the seats than whatever series is racing on his tracks.

The guy has built an empire in spite of NASCAR's bumbling.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Smith has probably always felt that it was track owner/promotor who owed the fans a good race *along* with the sanctioning body. But I imagine that he thinks the promotor is more indebted to the fans in the seats than whatever series is racing on his tracks.

The guy has built an empire in spite of NASCAR's bumbling.

NASCAR's bumbling built Bruton's empire. Without NASCAR, he doens't build those palaces on Indycar. Give your head a shake....

Smith is for the show, but the fan in me doesn't like the G-W-C finish. It is like the shoot out in hockey, an artificial ending to ensure a finish the "fan" would like...but most fans would just as soon let things run their course.

No race is ever the actual distance any more, it seems we run 20 laps of stupidity afterwards. Kinda puts any effort on fuel strategy and takes it out of the equation. Winning a race on a smart fuel strategy isn't a show tho..and a contrived wreck fest IS.

It's ok...I can stop watching NASCAR soon.....they are reaching out and showing me they are all about the stupidity, and not about putting on a competition....

[slorydn1]

Here's my unwanted take on all things "contrived".

I actually understand where Nascar and Bruton Smith are coming from.Doesn't mean I agree with them,but I do understand it.

Which would you rather see? An announcer screaming "Gordon got LOOSE IT's HARVICK, HARVICK BY INCHES (for a.006 finish) or Sterling Marlin winning a race at Rockingham by riding around the last 6 laps under caution? Add your favorite driver after the word "IT's" and all of us would rather see the first finish over the second. That said, what made a finish like that so special? Forget the fact of who it was and the circumstances around why he was even driving that car. In fact, go to the same race the year before when the MAN himself was still in the car and the close finish Dale Sr had with Labonte. Or Craven V Busch at Darlington. What made those finishes special is that those races built themselves to that point , going for 400 or 500 miles and just happened to end up in that manner. The individual stories of that particular day wove themselves together to end up the way they did. Any of the close finishes created by the GWC rule, and yes, to include my drivers Daytona 500 win, feel fake to me somehow. It still feels special to me, and maybe Harvick1 or Willracefan, but most people want to put an * next to his win. If he had won in the same manner with the big wreck after they had been racing all day there would still be people lamenting the fact that Mark Martin came so close, but we'd all be in agreement that it was a great finish.

Nascar wanted to try to catch that lightning in a bottle,and to try to keep the fans in Talladega from throwing objects on the track because another wreckfest ended under caution. It didn't work. Yeah, we've had some real close finishes, but have had several drivers have great days ruined by wrecks AFTER the scheduled distance,and that just sticks in my craw.

Now, for the chase, which really is just a GWC on steroids.

How many here were actually following Nascar in 1992? I was, sort of. Earnhardt was coming off back to back championships in 90 and 91,but was having a really crappy year in 92, a lot of that fueled by the fact that Earnhardt's "Chad Knaus", Kirk Shelmerdine, was already looking elsewhere, wanting to hang up his CC hat to go into team ownership. Anyway, going into the final race at Atlanta, there were as many as 5 drivers with an outside "shot" at winning the Championship. The odds on favorite, Davey Allison wrecked about halfway through the race (I can still hear BP exclaim "ITS OVER" for Allison). Anyway, Bill Elliot and Alan Kulwicki raced hard and traded the lead several times over thrugjout the race. Bill Elliot ended up winning the race. The points were tallied and although Bill won the race and led 102 laps scoring 180 points, Kulwicki finished second and led 103 laps and scored 180 points and Kulwicki won the championship by just 10 points over the course of an ENTIRE SEASON. 10 POINTS!!!!! That's staying out just to lead a lap instead of pitting with the leaders just twice during the season during a day you might not be running so well!

Just 11 years later the MEDIA started banging the 10 point drum when Matt Kenseth won only 1 race and ran away with the 2003 Championship. They conviently forgot that just 1 year earlier the championship battle went down to the last race of the season between TStew and Mark Martin. Some years are like that, some aren't. It comes with the territory, I guess.

Yes the chase has added exitement to years when 1 driver may have run away with it, but it has also taken the championship away from a driver that deserved to win it by putting together an entire season,and handing it to the guy who can be hottest over the last 10 races....Thereby making it fake, and an * should be placed there as well....

SO,to sum it up,yes, I as a fan want exitement at the end of a race or season. But I want it to naturally end up that way, not be scripted that way,and I have a feeling most here would agree with me on that.We don't want to be bored, but we don't want written endings either.

[damg75]

Here's my unwanted take on all things "contrived".

I actually understand where Nascar and Bruton Smith are coming from.Doesn't mean I agree with them,but I do understand it.

Which would you rather see? An announcer screaming "Gordon got LOOSE IT's HARVICK, HARVICK BY INCHES (for a.006 finish) or Sterling Marlin winning a race at Rockingham by riding around the last 6 laps under caution? Add your favorite driver after the word "IT's" and all of us would rather see the first finish over the second. That said, what made a finish like that so special? Forget the fact of who it was and the circumstances around why he was even driving that car. In fact, go to the same race the year before when the MAN himself was still in the car and the close finish Dale Sr had with Labonte. Or Craven V Busch at Darlington. What made those finishes special is that those races built themselves to that point , going for 400 or 500 miles and just happened to end up in that manner. The individual stories of that particular day wove themselves together to end up the way they did. Any of the close finishes created by the GWC rule, and yes, to include my drivers Daytona 500 win, feel fake to me somehow. It still feels special to me, and maybe Harvick1 or Willracefan, but most people want to put an * next to his win. If he had won in the same manner with the big wreck after they had been racing all day there would still be people lamenting the fact that Mark Martin came so close, but we'd all be in agreement that it was a great finish.

Nascar wanted to try to catch that lightning in a bottle,and to try to keep the fans in Talladega from throwing objects on the track because another wreckfest ended under caution. It didn't work. Yeah, we've had some real close finishes, but have had several drivers have great days ruined by wrecks AFTER the scheduled distance,and that just sticks in my craw.

Now, for the chase, which really is just a GWC on steroids.

How many here were actually following Nascar in 1992? I was, sort of. Earnhardt was coming off back to back championships in 90 and 91,but was having a really crappy year in 92, a lot of that fueled by the fact that Earnhardt's "Chad Knaus", Kirk Shelmerdine, was already looking elsewhere, wanting to hang up his CC hat to go into team ownership. Anyway, going into the final race at Atlanta, there were as many as 5 drivers with an outside "shot" at winning the Championship. The odds on favorite, Davey Allison wrecked about halfway through the race (I can still hear BP exclaim "ITS OVER" for Allison). Anyway, Bill Elliot and Alan Kulwicki raced hard and traded the lead several times over thrugjout the race. Bill Elliot ended up winning the race. The points were tallied and although Bill won the race and led 102 laps scoring 180 points, Kulwicki finished second and led 103 laps and scored 180 points and Kulwicki won the championship by just 10 points over the course of an ENTIRE SEASON. 10 POINTS!!!!! That's staying out just to lead a lap instead of pitting with the leaders just twice during the season during a day you might not be running so well!

Just 11 years later the MEDIA started banging the 10 point drum when Matt Kenseth won only 1 race and ran away with the 2003 Championship. They conviently forgot that just 1 year earlier the championship battle went down to the last race of the season between TStew and Mark Martin. Some years are like that, some aren't. It comes with the territory, I guess.

Yes the chase has added exitement to years when 1 driver may have run away with it, but it has also taken the championship away from a driver that deserved to win it by putting together an entire season,and handing it to the guy who can be hottest over the last 10 races....Thereby making it fake, and an * should be placed there as well....

SO,to sum it up,yes, I as a fan want exitement at the end of a race or season. But I want it to naturally end up that way, not be scripted that way,and I have a feeling most here would agree with me on that.We don't want to be bored, but we don't want written endings either.

Couldn't have been said any better. mokin:

[call_me_andrew]

Couldn't have been said any better. mokin:

I would have added that the 1959 Daytona 500 ended with a photo finish after being caution free for 500 miles.

[71Fan]

It would depend on whether or not either finished could construed as being contrived.

I favor races that end under racing circumstances, so imo the fix is to red flag rather yellow flag for wrecks/debris, or simply not count laps under yellow. While I agree that finishing under green is the way to go, I don't agree that the GWC is the way to achieve it.

[Mark in Oshawa]

The GWC is contrived. It contravenes the spirit of the race and how it should end up. If a race is 500 miles, it should end right there, yellow or not.

As to your excellent argument Slorydn, I will disagree with you on the chase. I agree the chase in 92 was a classic, but we had a lot of runaways too. More than enough. The Chase has evolved in how drivers tackle it, but if you do the points under the old Winston Cup system or the Chase, the results come out pretty much right on. The guys who are really good in the last 10 in the chase usually were good before. Has an eleven seed in the chase won? No...but at least now he has a shot, the same way a 15 seed in the NCAA championship has no business playing for the championship but makes the Final Four.

So I am in favour of the Chase. I think it does what it was designed to do. The GWC? It is too artificial. I get why NASCAR thinks they had to do it, but I notice they tear up a lot of race cars for no effect with these finishes. We usually have 3 of them and 20 extra laps, and the dominent car all day usually wins.....so I don't see the point.

[71Fan]

Ahhh yes....the Chase....definately good for business. Good for racing? Yea, that too. Cause it's good for business. Do *I* like it? Nope, sure don't. Simply because it changes the way teams race.

My personal opinion on who should be the champ? Simple. 43 points for the winner, 42 for 2nd, 41 for 3rd, and so on down the line. But that's just me.

And as always, your opinions and mileage may vary....wouldn't be any fun if they didn't

[call_me_andrew]

My personal opinion on who should be the champ? Simple. 43 points for the winner, 42 for 2nd, 41 for 3rd, and so on down the line. But that's just me.

And as always, your opinions and mileage may vary....wouldn't be any fun if they didn't

So to clarify, you think the second place finisher deserves 97.6% of the winner's points?