Barnhart getting a Dallara kickback?

[px400r]

Bowlby might have a good idea, but who's going to manufacture it?

How about Swift or Lola or even Dallara. I hear Elan Engineering is starving for work. Zytek bought Reynard's chassis manufacturing assets a long time ago. If the Delta Wing wins out, I'm sure any of the losing bidders wouldn't mind getting in on the action.

[indycool]

Little late for that.

[indycool]

Let's put it this way. It's about money and conflicts of interest. With four chassis out there, nobody's going to make any bucks. With two, someone will be faster and all the teams will gravitate to that car, a la Dallara and G Force/Panoz, which also had some quality engineers, or Ken Anderson, who designed the Falcon, who is a quality engineer. The DW is a Johnny-come-lately who has excited a few people but that's the substance of it. Do you honestly think that Zytek and Elan is poised to gear up for this? Elan has already failed. And just why is the DW a good idea?

[indycool]

If Bowlby designed cars for Lola, I'd like to know when. Bruce Ashmore was there forever,

[Mark in Oshawa]

IC..you say no one will make money if there is open competition, but I fail to see why the business model that used to exist isn't valid? Is it the lack of money in Indycar to buy new chassis? Teams wont buy new ones, but repair the old ones? I think at some point, the playing field should be kept open, and let the manufacturers make the call on whether they want to participate. Capitalism dictates if you cant make money, you will get out. The IRL shouldn't be making that decision, the teams will do it for them by buying or not buying any chassis from whomever. If this series goes to back to one Chassis for all by law, it is a short sighted decision that will hurt their crediblity to take back the place they used to have.

[indycool]

Mark, if four mnufacturers arein, that's roughly 5-6 cars per manufacturer. That's a lot of $$$$ for 5-6 cars. Past that, if it doesn't go fast, the customer base will drop rapidly. Could well put people out of business, like G Force.

[NickFalzone]

With the current variety of courses, I'd argue that there's a reasonable chance that 2-3 chassis makers could legitimately compete. Now yes, there would likely be a single dominant oval chassis, but on the roads and streets we might see some variety in strengths. And with the schedule slightly more heavily titled to those courses, that might mean chassis competition could work again. I don't think we'll see it, for the previously mentioned cost reasons, but I don't think it's fair to say one chassis is likely to quickly dominate on all courses.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Mark, if four mnufacturers arein, that's roughly 5-6 cars per manufacturer. That's a lot of $$$$ for 5-6 cars. Past that, if it doesn't go fast, the customer base will drop rapidly. Could well put people out of business, like G Force.

Well G-Force not making ANY Indycars because they are locked out will put them out of business. It isn't Brian Barnhart's job to make sure G-Force or Dallara can make a profit. Make the rules, let any manufacturer in that can comply and let the teams determine the winners and losers.....

[garyshell]

Well G-Force not making ANY Indycars because they are locked out will put them out of business. It isn't Brian Barnhart's job to make sure G-Force or Dallara can make a profit. Make the rules, let any manufacturer in that can comply and let the teams determine the winners and losers.....

I am not so sure it isn't his job. For years the Toyota/Japanese method of just in time inventory squeezed more and more out of their suppliers. After a period of time they realized that they had created a situation whereby the suppliers were on the brink of making no profit at all and thereby risked having no suppliers at all for key components.

It may not be his job to see that Dallara or anyone else makes a profit, but it IS his job to make sure he doesn't create a situation where there are NO suppliers at all. Ask a company to agree to a situation where they will be in a position to build only 5 or 6 cars a year, meet certain safety specs, submit chassis for destruction to insure that meet those specs, and cap the cost of the cars to a number you set and they will tell you to go suck eggs. Their design, tooling and setup costs can't be recouped in that scenario. We are talking carbon fiber these days, not tube frames or aluminum monocoque.

Gary

[px400r]

If Bowlby designed cars for Lola, I'd like to know when. Bruce Ashmore was there forever,

LOL, some people just won't hear what they don't want to hear.

Bowlby was chief designer at Lola until 2002 (http://www.racecar-engineering.com/a...olis-500.html).

I think that makes him every bit an expert as the good folks at Lola, Swift, and Dallara.

As for Ashmore, he was at Lola until 1993, when he left to work his magic at Reynard. As you know, Reynard dominated until the last generation Lola Champ Car came out in 2000. IIRC, Bowlby had been with Lola for nearly 12 years- and like Ashmore, was a chief designer.