How long before all the teams chose Mercs Engines

[ioan]

The complete turnaround for Mercedes and their superiority is quite amazing. I remember before the freeze MB's was constantly criticized for being unreliable and/or underpowered. Also with the introduction of V8's in 2006 MB was immediately one of the 'worst' engines on the grid, but the engine freeze and rev-limiter has beautifully turned the table in MB's favour. Current situation almost reminds the old Silberpfeile days of 30's and 50's, when Daimler-Benz was dominating the Grand Prix circuits. :

The rev limitation rules helped them out as they were unable to produce a reliable engine that could rev over 20000 rpm.

[Sleeper]

The rev limitation rules helped them out as they were unable to produce a reliable engine that could rev over 20000 rpm.

I dont remeber too many Mercedes engines blowing up in 06.

Anyway, if RBR want the Mercedes engines next year they need dispensation from the FIA and it seems like they dont want the whole grid to be powered by just one or 2 makes.

[ioan]

I dont remeber too many Mercedes engines blowing up in 06.

But strange enough they were not as fast as the others either.

[Sleeper]

But strange enough they were not as fast as the others either.

That wasnt down to the engine though, the McLaren just wasnt a great car that year, too much understeer for its drivers.

[ioan]

That wasnt down to the engine though, the McLaren just wasnt a great car that year, too much understeer for its drivers.

I believe that their engine was not up there in terms of power with the other engines that were able to safely rev over 20K rpm, they most probably designed an engine that produced peak power at lower revs. Once everyone was restricted to 19K rpm the Mercedes was starting to be equal to the Ferrari and BMW engines and when the revs were restricted to 18K rpm Mercedes reaped the rewards for having an engine that was designed to produce top power around 18K rpm while the other engines were designed with over 20K rpm in mind.

This certainly isn't excusing Renault who had this winter at disposal to improve their engine and they are still not up there.

[Sleeper]

I believe that their engine was not up there in terms of power with the other engines that were able to safely rev over 20K rpm, they most probably designed an engine that produced peak power at lower revs. Once everyone was restricted to 19K rpm the Mercedes was starting to be equal to the Ferrari and BMW engines and when the revs were restricted to 18K rpm Mercedes reaped the rewards for having an engine that was designed to produce top power around 18K rpm while the other engines were designed with over 20K rpm in mind.

This certainly isn't excusing Renault who had this winter at disposal to improve their engine and they are still not up there.

Errr, you started off talking about reliability, which was ery good as far as I can remember, and as I remember it the Mercedes was the second engine to hit 20 000rpm after the Cosworth. The fact that Kimi finished an unchallenged 2nd at Monza (without looking like he was too bothered about catching Michael) suggests that there was little wrong with that engine in terms of outright power.

[ioan]

as I remember it the Mercedes was the second engine to hit 20 000rpm after the Cosworth.

And me thinking the firsts one was BMW.

Anyway how many seconds before the Mercedes thing exploded after reaching the 20K rpms while BMW was hitting 21K? Not too many.

[jens]

Errr, you started off talking about reliability, which was ery good as far as I can remember, and as I remember it the Mercedes was the second engine to hit 20 000rpm after the Cosworth. The fact that Kimi finished an unchallenged 2nd at Monza (without looking like he was too bothered about catching Michael) suggests that there was little wrong with that engine in terms of outright power.

McLaren's chassis has used to be very good on so-called mechanical grip circuits in recent years, in 2006 it was evidenced by the fact that they were fast at Melbourne, Monaco, Montreal, Hungaroring and Monza.

[Sonic]

Sooner or later all F1 teams are going to be Mercedes-Benz sponsored by santander!

[Knock-on]

The complete turnaround for Mercedes and their superiority is quite amazing. I remember before the freeze MB's was constantly criticized for being unreliable and/or underpowered. Also with the introduction of V8's in 2006 MB was immediately one of the 'worst' engines on the grid, but the engine freeze and rev-limiter has beautifully turned the table in MB's favour. Current situation almost reminds the old Silberpfeile days of 30's and 50's, when Daimler-Benz was dominating the Grand Prix circuits. :

You can make a fast engine reliable by development but it's very hard to make a slow reliable engine into a fast relaible engine.

I remember when Kimi moved thinking "too soon Kimi". He went through the pain barrier but then the engine sterted to come good. Bet he's wondering the same even though he lucked into the WDC a bit by the Alonso / Lewis war

Renault shouldn't be unhappy, they were allowed to develop their engine last winter and still couldn't get up there with Mercedes and Ferrari.

Totally agree. The rules were there for everyone and yet Renault were allowed special dispensation to improve their engine. The fact is that the engine is as good as the Ferrari or Mercedes unit for pace is one thing but they can still develop the engine with relaibility modifications which is what's hurting them.

On it's day, the Renault is as good as anyone but it's reliability that's killed RBR championship.