2008 - first year back together

[Chris R]

I have a question maybe some of the guys with more inside knowledge of the industry can answer:

How much have costs gone up for a race track to put on a race? If they have, why?

I am going to guess it is significantly more expensive to put on a race at a place like Michigan than it was 25 years ago - not just due to cost of living/inflation but because spectators expect better services, higher insurance etc...

The reason I ask is I am thinking this might be why tracks like Fontana etc. are likely to stay away....

[indycool]

Chris, tracks are a fair-sized business today, at least superspeedways are. They have budgets -- maintenance, property taxes, year-round employees, etc. And they have sources of income from races and track rentals for tests and concessions and sponsorships and the like.

To have a race, a promoter must think about his expenses in putting on the show, how many people he thinks he can draw, how much he can charge for ticket prices, what sponsorship dollars might be available and weigh that against his own expenses, which include the cost of the show.

The sanctioning body must think about paying competitors, paying its staff, paying its office rent, travel, equipment, series sponsorship money available, TV money available and crunch all of those and other numbers.

Both entities, if they're professionals, know about what they can do to make out okay. Now, they may bullbleep each other or may make statements to the media to gather sympathy during negotiations but they'll strike a bargain.

The ones that don't, well, just don't.

[Chaparral66]

I think you have to consider why open wheel stopped going there in the first place. Pre open wheel war, those tracks were doing just fine. Now that was are combined again, it's not unfeasable to take another look at those tracks and see what can be done to get OWR back to those venues. Even during the war, Road America was able to make it work (albeit sometimes, just barely), and Cleveland was always pretty good. Obviously, Fontana and Michigan would be bigger challenges. Maybe if TG could swallow a little pride and have an Indy Car race there during a Sprint Cup weekend to reintroduce the sport to the audience out there (Yeah, I know, IC, but hey, gotta think outside the box, here). I would also include Laguna Seca in this deal. I'm sure you've heard many people here talk about AOWR going back to the classic venues, we just gotta find the right combination of things to make it viable.

[indycool]

Good post, Chap, but I think some of that work has already been approached.

Cleveland/Houston -- The IRL met with Lanigan on these and they couldn't strike a bargain. Maybe it wasn't because of anything other than both events have been money losers.

Toronto -- AGR took it over, got Honda of Canada to support it and it makes financial sense now, so it's there.

Road America -- CART and CC treated the track so badly that its date wandered all over the calendar, Mario had to mediate a lawsuit to get the race held one year, CC wound up with a track rental, etc. It's probably a good move to wait a couple years and let the stain go away first. In any case, RA and the IRL briefly talked about it.

Laguna Seca -- CART took away Laguna's date, put it in June, attendance fizzled, put it back in September, the sizzle was gone, Laguna owed CART money, CC ditched it for San Jose, then CC ditched San Jose. Like Road America, it'd be rough going for awhile there. And the IRL has just signed another three-year deal with Infineon.

Fontana and Michigan -- Fontana, with its second NASCAR date, now has a scheduling problem because either spring or fall, it's too close to NASCAR for it, but I understand they actually want to work something out. Not the same with the GM at Michigan, who may have been trying to be a BMOC with ISC in Daytona, which may have been told it wouldn't work. That's probably why the IRL accepted Penske's proposal to go to Detroit. Don't think it's a matter of TG "swallowing pride" and running with Cup. No openings -- ARCA and the Nationwide Series run with Cup.

Time will tell as the schedule evolves over the next few years.

[SarahFan]

Good post, Chap, but I think some of that work has already been approached.

Cleveland/Houston -- The IRL met with Lanigan on these and they couldn't strike a bargain. Maybe it wasn't because of anything other than both events have been money losers.

Toronto -- AGR took it over, got Honda of Canada to support it and it makes financial sense now, so it's there.

Road America -- CART and CC treated the track so badly that its date wandered all over the calendar, Mario had to mediate a lawsuit to get the race held one year, CC wound up with a track rental, etc. It's probably a good move to wait a couple years and let the stain go away first. In any case, RA and the IRL briefly talked about it.

Laguna Seca -- CART took away Laguna's date, put it in June, attendance fizzled, put it back in September, the sizzle was gone, Laguna owed CART money, CC ditched it for San Jose, then CC ditched San Jose. Like Road America, it'd be rough going for awhile there. And the IRL has just signed another three-year deal with Infineon.

Fontana and Michigan -- Fontana, with its second NASCAR date, now has a scheduling problem because either spring or fall, it's too close to NASCAR for it, but I understand they actually want to work something out. Not the same with the GM at Michigan, who may have been trying to be a BMOC with ISC in Daytona, which may have been told it wouldn't work. That's probably why the IRL accepted Penske's proposal to go to Detroit. Don't think it's a matter of TG "swallowing pride" and running with Cup. No openings -- ARCA and the Nationwide Series run with Cup.

Time will tell as the schedule evolves over the next few years.

Honesty is always the best policy

all of the venues listed above (sans houston)....are casualties of the split....poor performance from CART as well as the IRL has soured them

[Rex Monaco]

Fontana, with its second NASCAR date, now has a scheduling problem because either spring or fall, it's too close to NASCAR for it, but I understand they actually want to work something out.

Fontana doesn't need 2 NASCAR dates. Attendence is falling for both. I have been giving my tickets away for one of the races for a few years now. And there are alot of empty seats around me in the Speedway Club section.

But I'd prefer to keep the Labor Day NASCAR race, and Long Beach means spring is already covered. So scheduling an ICS race might be difficult.

That said, I bet the Fontana race at the beginning of the season gets better attendance, since the loast race is right before the chase and people lose interest when their driver is sure to be out. (I hate the chase BTW.)

[indycool]

Hey, Rex, we agree on one!

[indycool]

Sorry, double post.

[SarahFan]

Fontana doesn't need 2 NASCAR dates. Attendence is falling for both. I have been giving my tickets away for one of the races for a few years now. And there are alot of empty seats around me in the Speedway Club section.

But I'd prefer to keep the Labor Day NASCAR race, and Long Beach means spring is already covered. So scheduling an ICS race might be difficult.

That said, I bet the Fontana race at the beginning of the season gets better attendance, since the loast race is right before the chase and people lose interest when their driver is sure to be out. (I hate the chase BTW.)

would an IRL date trump a second Cup date?

not by a long shot ....or 30k+

[SarahFan]

and 21/2 to 3 ratings points