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Thread: Not Number 1
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15th August 2008, 04:59 #1
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Not Number 1
Maybe I'm starting to show a little morbid fasicnation here, but when I was looking through the results of Grands Prix trying to find the Number 0 on a car, I found this photograph:
John Watson - McLaren, Brands Hatch 1985.
I can't think of terribly many instances where the number one plate has been driven by someone who wasn't otherwise entitled to it in F1, at least in modern time anyway.
I think I saw a photo once of Lance Macklin's HWM-Alta in '53 but can't really be sure.The Old Republic was a stupidly run organisation which deserved to be taken over. All Hail Palpatine!
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15th August 2008, 09:03 #2
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Didn't Ronnie run the #1 a few times while he was first with Lotus?
Riccardo Patrese - 256GPs 1977-1993
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15th August 2008, 09:18 #3
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Yes - 1974 was the first full season of permanent numbers (before which, all sorts of drivers carried the number 1) but of course reigning champion Jackie Stewart had retired. The numbers 1 and 2 thus went to the reigning champion constructor, which was Lotus, and Peterson got the number 1. Interesting that this rule wasn't applied in 1993-4 when Williams had the number 0 instead, though of course Frank was having a little spat with Spanky at the time...
John Watson was indeed the last non-champion to carry #1, and about the closest we've got since then was probably 2000 - if Eddie Irvine had won the championship in 1999, he'd have taken the number 1 to Jaguar, and Luciano Burti would have had it for his Grand Prix debut in Austria when Irvine was unwell and withdrew.https://wordpress.com/stats/insights/stugrovesf1.wordpress.com
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15th August 2008, 09:20 #4
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Was it the case that before then the winner of the race from the previous year carried the No. 1 ?
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15th August 2008, 13:14 #5
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I can think of this happening more recently in the WRC. Ari Vatanen had been seeded at number 1 for the 1985 1000 Lakes Rally after his win the previous year, but when he had to withdraw following his crash in Argentina the number 1 car was driven by Kalle Grundel instead.
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16th August 2008, 08:43 #6
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Originally Posted by Mark
Quite often the top of the entry list seems to have been a local entry too: Roger Ward took #1 for the inaugural US Grand Prix despite being in a hopelessly outclassed Kurtis Kraft IndyCar, while Graham Whitehead made his one and only F1 start at Silverstone in 1952 driving car number 1.
The official reason for all this randomness was to beat piracy of race programmes, although the top names tended to be at the top of the entry lists regardless: Graham Hill, for instance, drove most of 1969 with the number 1, despite the reigning champ rule not coming in until Spain 1973 (a street circuit in Spain... will they ever try that again? )https://wordpress.com/stats/insights/stugrovesf1.wordpress.com
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16th August 2008, 21:16 #7
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It was more complicated than that.
1973 was the first year they tried to make numbers consistent throughout the year with only partial success.
Before that it was up to the individual race organisers. Some used only even numbers to avoid the 'unlucky' 13 and 17. Some used both odd and even. Some allocated numbers in the order they received entries - i believe this is the way the ACF did it in 1906. Some put the entrants in alphabetical order and numbered the cars from there. Some put the private entrants (Maseratis or later Copers mainly) adjacent to the factory cars, some put them at the end. Some listed the cars in alphabetical order. Some left gaps in case teams wanted to make late entries. The Germans in the early fifties had a system where drivers in German national racing were allocated a number for the season, or it may have been driver/car or driver/entrant, and they kept their numbers for the GP. This is how in the 1952 German GP the Maseratis had single digit numbers while the Ferraris began at 101 and the Gordinis at 120 or so... Some organisers gave each car a unique number for the meeting: possibly the small sports cars in a supporting race got the low numbers; possibly the GP entry did, but because the supporting races followed immediately late entries in the GP had high numbers. In some years the Belgians changed the numbers between race and practic to foil the pirate programme makers 0pre-TV and pre-sponsorship the organisers needed every penny they could raise to run the race).
An interesting situation occurred with the Safari in the fifties and sixties. Initially numbers were allocated more or less at random. Then they started the smallest cars first for administrative convenience as this tended to bunch the field. However, with mud and dust the earlier starters had a perceived advantage. So, in 1964 they had a draw for which class started first. The 1500cc class were first and the Cortina GTs dominated. They went to a completely random draw for 1965 and car no 1 won! Then they introduced seeding with the international entries and the fastest locals starting from the front.Duncan Rollo
The more you learn, the more you realise how little you know.
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17th August 2008, 16:21 #8
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Originally Posted by D-Type
In Monaco, the numbers were allocated alphabetically (in French, obviously) by the nationality of the entrant. The Swiss used the same method, but alphabetically in German.Good friends we have, Oh, good friends we have lost along the way
In this great future,
You can\'t forget your past
Bob Marley
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17th August 2008, 17:53 #9
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Originally Posted by inimitablestoo
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17th August 2008, 19:00 #10
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You're right, I remember the year after the privateer Franco Cunico won the Rally Sanremo he didn't carry number 1 on the event - which confused me, as I thought I'd worked out the system . There is a system which I believe remains in place for the non-regulars, which I have seen somewhere, but am not totally familiar with.
https://wordpress.com/stats/insights/stugrovesf1.wordpress.com
So Devine held on for the win, Edwards couldn't catch him despite a couple of fastest times today. The unfortunate Cronin recovered to 4th. This result should tight up the battle for the 2024 ITRC.
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