Max Mosley opens a can of worms.

Bill Clinton was caught, did this have a negative impact on the whole US?!

Thank you for highlighting the fundamental flaw in the argument that the FIA has been damaged by the sex-life expose on Mosley.

If I recall, whilst embarrassing to the Clinton's, 'Slick Willy's' cigar-incident didn't bring the business of government in the United States crashing to a halt.

I'd be interested to know if any business deals were canceled solely due to the President's inability to keep his pants on, because I certainly don't recall any.

It's already here in this thread. You've chosen to dismiss it.

No it isn't.

All you've come up with are 'sound-bites' from people already known to have a grudge / axe-to-grind with Mosley and expressions of concern from four manufacturers expressed shortly after the News of the World published its story.

Just because Jackie Stewart or Damon Hill claim it is damaging F1 doesn't make it true. They have shown nothing to support their case, therefore it is merely subjective opinion.

Please note - Subjective opinion, even from those you admire, does not equate to a fact.

Just because four manufacturers expressed their discomfort with the lurid allegations made by the News of the World does not mean that Mosley has damaged F1.

It is interesting how, since Mosley started his legal action against the News of the World, the voices saying that he has damaged F1 have gone very, very quiet.

It appears that they are realizing that they formed an opinion in a knee-jerk response to a gutter-press tabloid headline as opposed to the facts.

If so, then you could learn something from that - wait for the facts.

Leaping to an automatic conclusion does not help 'discussion' nor does it ever come close to being informed. When the headlines were shown on the TV news, my initial response was that Mosley should resign....

.......but once the story began to be investigated, once the 'Nazi' claims were unsupported in court by the failure of the witness to attend, once the FIA had given Mosley a vote of confidence, having received legal advice on the situation, then it was no longer right or proper to think that Mosley should resign.

Just for once, take off your pre-concieved 'bigot-vision' glasses and read the whole story, not just the headlines you want to hear.

I don't believe it is possible to view things in isolation in that way, and therefore I disagree with your conclusions.

You evidently believe it is possible to view things in isolation from the evidence and facts that would support your view, so save us the sanctimonious lectuures.

You have been asked time and time again to provide evidence which confirms your view, and each time you have run away from your responsibility in this discussion to provide any.

Your attitude and behaviour is completely unbecoming of somebody who wishes to engage in frank and honest discussion.

You have shown yourself to be willing to throw mud in the hope that it sticks.

You, sir, are nothing better than a gutter-press tabloid journalist, which if nothing else explains why you cling to the News of the World article in the hope it will sink Mosley yet never check that your views match the facts.

[markabilly]

Sad thing, bottom line at the end of the day. A year ago, MaX and all certain folks being outraged over "mac-cheating", ban them for two years, and on and on......

Less than a year later, all is pretty much forgotten......

And now we have "Maxcheat and whip" brought on by the very person who sat and continues to sit in judgment of those who might bring the sport into disrepute, folks justifying Max remaining in office because he did not lie to me (Very true, 'me" is not the wife and two sons he pretends to love)...or to whoever, twisting up "no proof that he actually do it as a nazi" (after all where is SS badge and so forth??) as somehow equating it as all being perfectly acceptable for the morals of the person charged with acting as an umpire....sitting in judgment of Mac and so forth (and when he himself is not doing the judging of the rules, he is the head of the organization so responsible for it)

And in the world of Machievelli, Max knows well how to operate those principles to his advantage (and I well demonstrated how great last year that max was in terms of appying Machievelli to the mac issues and so forth)

In the world of Machievelli, these were brilliant moves. Pretend nothing wrong, grab staunch supporters to use to manipulate the FIA vote to your advantage, sue the villain newspaper, and literally present the matter as some private innocent role playing, only embarrassing because it was made public.......

and last but not least, pick a ruckus with Bernie, talk how you are the one true hope to prevent Max from greedily taking over, even start the rumor that Bernie may have been the tipster, because Max stands in the way of Bernie taking over...

The last being the biggest joke of all, max saving F1 from Bernie, when Bernie already owns it, because Max already sold it to bernie and then collected his 300 million gift, requiring the move to Monaco.....

And if that story does not have the truth in it, max would have sued, just like he sued Brundle for suggesting that Max was into witch hunting

And now we have ferrari fans very fearful that somehow MaX departing the FIA will put the interests of Ferrari at risk

No matter other faults, in terms of an ability to apply well, the principles of Machievelli, I can point to no better example.

Such brilliance. And stupid and bizzare that anyone can get away with it...after all poor Billy Clinton was disbarred for perjury and he managed to beat it out of office before impeachment..politicans need to sudy well "Maxevelli" techniques for both public politics, private politics and corporate power

While one might debate for years as to max's merits, worthiness and so forth, bottom line is that Max's continued presence means the old line is still true: People get the kind of government and leaders that they deserve.

[Tazio]

Sad thing, bottom line at the end of the day. A year ago, MaX and all certain folks being outraged over "mac-cheating", ban them for two years, and on and on......

Less than a year later, all is pretty much forgotten......

And now we have "Maxcheat and whip" brought on by the very person who sat and continues to sit in judgment of those who might bring the sport into disrepute, folks justifying Max remaining in office because he did not lie to me (Very true, 'me" is not the wife and two sons he pretends to love)...or to whoever, twisting up "no proof that he actually do it as a nazi" (after all where is SS badge and so forth??) as somehow equating it as all being perfectly acceptable for the morals of the person charged with acting as an umpire....sitting in judgment of Mac and so forth (and when he himself is not doing the judging of the rules, he is the head of the organization so responsible for it)

And in the world of Machievelli, Max knows well how to operate those principles to his advantage (and I well demonstrated how great last year that max was in terms of appying Machievelli to the mac issues and so forth)

In the world of Machievelli, these were brilliant moves. Pretend nothing wrong, grab staunch supporters to use to manipulate the FIA vote to your advantage, sue the villain newspaper, and literally present the matter as some private innocent role playing, only embarrassing because it was made public.......

and last but not least, pick a ruckus with Bernie, talk how you are the one true hope to prevent Max from greedily taking over, even start the rumor that Bernie may have been the tipster, because Max stands in the way of Bernie taking over...

The last being the biggest joke of all, max saving F1 from Bernie, when Bernie already owns it, because Max already sold it to bernie and then collected his 300 million gift, requiring the move to Monaco.....

And if that story does not have the truth in it, max would have sued, just like he sued Brundle for suggesting that Max was into witch hunting

And now we have ferrari fans very fearful that somehow MaX departing the FIA will put the interests of Ferrari at risk

No matter other faults, in terms of an ability to apply well, the principles of Machievelli, I can point to no better example.

Such brilliance. And stupid and bizzare that anyone can get away with it...after all poor Billy Clinton was disbarred for perjury and he managed to beat it out of office before impeachment..politicans need to sudy well "Maxevelli" techniques for both public politics, private politics and corporate power

While one might debate for years as to max's merits, worthiness and so forth, bottom line is that Max's continued presence means the old line is still true: People get the kind of government and leaders that they deserve.

Then by your, and Machievelli's logic, The people of Zimbabwe "deserve" Robert Mugabe.
Now why can't I take your arguement seriously. Or does it only apply in trivial matters?

[markabilly]

Then by your, and Machievelli's logic, The people of Zimbabwe "deserve" Robert Mugabe.
Now why can't I take your arguement seriously. Or does it only apply in trivial matters?

They failed to take the necessary action to prevent Mugabee from getting there and continuing. They did not want to pay the price, and now they reap the whirlwind. I feel sorry for them, but if they will not help themselves, so be it.

The FIA and those who support F1 failed to take action to prevent MaX from getting there and continuing. And in this case, the FIA and motorsports have all the resources necessary to stop this non-sense, but instead they are lead around like a bunch of old goats to the slaughter.

Actually I could care less about who or what he screws in his own personal private life. But when it comes public, if there is one thing to know, it is that if a man lies to his own sons and wife for years-not for their benefit, but to hide his own his own personal illicit pleasure--- this is a man who would lie far more willingly to someone who is merely someone he knows or to the general public. If the president of the FIA has no honor and there is not one reason to trust him to safeguard the sport, then there is no reason for him to be there.

What I do not like is how he has managed to screw the FIA out of billions and gave it to bernie, in return for what is nothing more than a 300 million dollar bribe. Now the general public may not comprehend the latter, they should be able to comprehend the former.

I find disgusting the hypocrisy and lack of any sense of morality or honor. That one who preached and lead the circus in punishing Mac for bringing the sport into disrepute (regardless of whether you think that they should or should not have been punished), should be caught, and yet continue on with this court case, especially with the bizzare nonsense that sprewed forth from his own mouth and that of his whores, in open court, under oath (as though that means anything with max), is beyond hypocrisy.

If he had not sued, and then said what he did in open court, my attitude would be like it was before. But no more. Tis my opinion, that he would have been better off to have never sued. Once he got what he wanted--to keep his presidency--he should have shut up. But no, rather than to have some think he might be something of scum, he goes to court and proves it out of his own mouth.

Motorsports should now know, if based on nothing else but his own court case, what a rotten old joke that the FIA has become with a leader like that.

And if you want the evidence, just read or listen to the trial testimony and think that this is the president of the FIA, the arbiter of disputes, the protector from those who would bring the sport into disrepute...

[ioan]

Someone forgot to drink his kool aid.

[markabilly]

Someone forgot to drink his kool aid.

just a little drop will do you, just fine
Thanks, feel better already

[Tazio]

They failed to take the necessary action to prevent Mugabee from getting there and continuing. They did not want to pay the price, and now they reap the whirlwind. I feel sorry for them, but if they will not help themselves, so be it.

The FIA and those who support F1 failed to take action to prevent MaX from getting there and continuing. And in this case, the FIA and motorsports have all the resources necessary to stop this non-sense, but instead they are lead around like a bunch of old goats to the slaughter.

Actually I could care less about who or what he screws in his own personal private life. But when it comes public, if there is one thing to know, it is that if a man lies to his own sons and wife for years-not for their benefit, but to hide his own his own personal illicit pleasure--- this is a man who would lie far more willingly to someone who is merely someone he knows or to the general public. If the president of the FIA has no honor and there is not one reason to trust him to safeguard the sport, then there is no reason for him to be there.

What I do not like is how he has managed to screw the FIA out of billions and gave it to bernie, in return for what is nothing more than a 300 million dollar bribe. Now the general public may not comprehend the latter, they should be able to comprehend the former.

I find disgusting the hypocrisy and lack of any sense of morality or honor. That one who preached and lead the circus in punishing Mac for bringing the sport into disrepute (regardless of whether you think that they should or should not have been punished), should be caught, and yet continue on with this court case, especially with the bizzare nonsense that sprewed forth from his own mouth and that of his whores, in open court, under oath (as though that means anything with max), is beyond hypocrisy.

If he had not sued, and then said what he did in open court, my attitude would be like it was before. But no more. Tis my opinion, that he would have been better off to have never sued. Once he got what he wanted--to keep his presidency--he should have shut up. But no, rather than to have some think he might be something of scum, he goes to court and proves it out of his own mouth.

Motorsports should now know, if based on nothing else but his own court case, what a rotten old joke that the FIA has become with a leader like that.

And if you want the evidence, just read or listen to the trial testimony and think that this is the president of the FIA, the arbiter of disputes, the protector from those who would bring the sport into disrepute...

I judge him on his record as an arbiter. Nothing else!
I'm not intersested in what people think about him as an indiviual.
I'll leave that to the bleeding hearts!
Plus I believe he was spanking, and getting spanked
Roll playing, hardley a case of adultry!

[markabilly]

I judge him on his record as an arbiter. Nothing else!
I'm not intersested in what people think about him as an indiviual.
I'll leave that to the bleeding hearts!

The honesty of a judge can not be seperated from his opinions. Without an impeccable record of honesty and honor, one can never "judge him on his record" without the question of whether the opinion is one worthy of respect or one worthy of the bribe paid to him or other deceit.....

Tis a qualification inseperable from the job he took upon himself. Many jobs have no such qualifications, and he should have stuck to one of those....

The fundamental basis for judgment of respect, honor and truthfulness is based upon the provable presence or absence of such acts, and has long been the law in many civilized countries on issues of impeachment.

And were he to give testimony, my question to him would be "and this is your word, your opinion, based upon your honor, your oath, from you who has admitted to repeatedly lying to those who should be closest to you, to hiring prostitutes and setting them up in an apartment...yada yada yada....."

Well, people continue to pay and go see races so what?? Well people go to pro werstlin, and pay.....so what is the difference? In the former one expected there to be fair play and all that and in the latter, we know it is not. And now the difference is nothing.


Such behavior simply provides fuel that teh FIA is simply corrupt, for example, the argument that the mac judgment was not really based on the facts and a sense of justice and fair play, but on a dishonest desire to see Ferrari win, (perhaps some kickbacks maybe???)and so by corrupting the basis for the opinion, one adds fuel to that fire, and destroys respect for the basis of any action taken by a person in such a position. Max should have kept quiet after he escaped with his presidency....but no..