Bite points

With a ban on passing info about clutch settings for the start about to commence , how will it all work out for the various drivers and teams ?
Merc , I suppose , having had a few howler starts , must be sweating the most .
They seem to have a package that can't be handled in a wake , so they have to get off the line well .

I'm wondering if we'll hear any coded messages in the warm-up lap , as they haven't had to do this themselves for a very long time .

This could be great to see , but they will have to be extremely careful about those starts .

I'm pretty happy with this change , and hopefully the drivers are as well .

Mind you , if an extra warm-up lap ends up costing you the race even with the team's help , you gotta figure the drivers may sweat a little more as they approach the start .

I would think that some clever engineering solutions are being worked on as I write this .

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

I would think that some clever engineering solutions are being worked on as I write this .

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Yes no doubt. I've lost count of the number of times the FIA have banned launch control systems.

Last year, the brakes were the weak point for the Mercs. They apparently got that solved. This year it seems to be the clutch. I don't know what Ferrari and Williams were doing the past two races that they might not be able to do from Spa forward. But if those two teams have found something that Mercedes hasn't, we might have a real dogfight on our hands through the end of the season - especially on tracks that are harder to pass on.

I just wonder why do they need to pass that info over the radio?

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Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

Last year, the brakes were the weak point for the Mercs. They apparently got that solved. This year it seems to be the clutch.

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Two races does not equal one year.

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Originally Posted by Big Ben

I just wonder why do they need to pass that info over the radio?

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Good question , but I think the answer is that they are not allowed to make the actual adjustments from the pits , and that it was achieved by making two-way data transmission illegal .
So , they are left with coaching , which will now be illegal , or , at least more difficult .

That I know but what I wonder is that since it's a setup they use right at the start of the race can't they talk about it before the race? I admit I have no clue what these setups actually involve.

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

Good question , but I think the answer is that they are not allowed to make the actual adjustments from the pits , and that it was achieved by making two-way data transmission illegal .
So , they are left with coaching , which will now be illegal , or , at least more difficult .

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Surely a simple way around this is to simply tell the driver what he needs to do in terms of preparing the clutch before he leaves the pits and as soon as he's found the sweet spot send him a coded message. Something like "that's great, system 21 is perfect".

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Originally Posted by Hawkmoon

Surely a simple way around this is to simply tell the driver what he needs to do in terms of preparing the clutch before he leaves the pits and as soon as he's found the sweet spot send him a coded message. Something like "that's great, system 21 is perfect".

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Yes , the "enigma machine" will be at the ready .

I would think that those who have been calmest off the line , and took close notice of the numbers and button and/or switch positions , and how they related to the feel of the pedal , will be best set to be able to cope with doing it alone .
And , those who seem to take the most instructions will be on the back foot .
At least they have the break to sit in their home simulators and try to get the systems into their heads .


In a world where leading out of the first corner means you are likely to win , having the driver's fate solidly in the hands of the driver can only be a good thing .

But , I do worry a bit about the debates over whether the "enigma machine" was in use or not .
That could be really tedious as that debate will hang over the entire race , being it will all occur just before the start .
Hell , if it was a blatant breach early in the warm-up lap , wouldn't they need to punish a driver by dropping his position even before the race begins , as allowing him the start with him having prepared unfairly would surely be farcical , wouldn't it ?
How many warm-up laps might it take to decide the punishment ?
And , how messy would the start be after all is sorted ?

I think the familiar engine stalls at the start of the race due to improper clutch release, will return and we would return to launch control again soon enough. These premature stalls have been very dangerous in the past with rear ramming accidents at the start of races causing catastrophic pile ups, as a stalled car causes cars coming from behind darting this way and that to avoid crashing into the stationary car.

Would Mercedes be worst off without its dodgy launch control system? I think not. I think they would be happy to see it go actually, just one less problem to worry about.
I am not sure how many drivers on the grid have manual clutch experience at F1 level. I would think, Alonso, Button, Raikonen, Massa, Rosberg, Vettel and Hamilton are the ones that joined F1 just before launch control was introduced [l think]. Hence, Spa is going to be a first for most for the grid and a learning experience for a majority of the drivers.
Premature starts would also result in a few drivers picking up penalties at the start of races.

Spa could well turn out to be another bizarre race, with odd teams on the podium or in the top 6.

Check this out
http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/start_sequence.html

Spa could well turn out to be another bizarre race, with odd teams on the podium or in the top 6.

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

I am not sure how many drivers on the grid have manual clutch experience at F1 level. I would think, Alonso, Button, Raikonen, Massa, Rosberg, Vettel and Hamilton are the ones that joined F1 just before launch control was introduced [l think]. Hence, Spa is going to be a first for most for the grid and a learning experience for a majority of the drivers.

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Another possibility is it favours the rookie drivers who have been used to a manual clutch start in lower formulae more recently. On balance though I suspect the main differentiator will be who can keep a cool head at the start, and that will favour the older, more experienced drivers.

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Originally Posted by AndyL

Another possibility is it favours the rookie drivers who have been used to a manual clutch start in lower formulae more recently. On balance though I suspect the main differentiator will be who can keep a cool head at the start, and that will favour the older, more experienced drivers.

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Spa would throw up a few gremlins as this is a new mid-season changes to the car. Not tested and drivers would be learning the new setup during Free Practise. It would be fascinating to see what would happen this next race.

Rumblings in the paddock that this unaided start will be too dangerous .
I hope it happens , not for the danger , of course .

Though , it could be scary , it should show us who can master the software , at least .
That's if they plan to mash the throttle as per normal .

And , that's the argument ; that the software is too complicated for the driver to set .

So , the question is whether to teach the complicated system to the driver , letting him run it autonomously , while designing a system he can easier control , and then teaching him again , or let him fully control the start with his foot and hand clutch more manually while designing the new system ?

I will predict we will have at least one extra warm-up lap while they remove a non-starter or two from the grid and I hope , due to everyone being on edge and super careful , that we have a safe start , but one that shows us a few of these guys shining out with some nice pedal feel .

Given the issues Kimi's had in the last couple of years with accelerating from low speed, I'm not optimistic for his chances. I hope I'm wrong!

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

Rumblings in the paddock that this unaided start will be too dangerous .
I hope it happens , not for the danger , of course .

Though , it could be scary , it should show us who can master the software , at least .
That's if they plan to mash the throttle as per normal .

And , that's the argument ; that the software is too complicated for the driver to set .

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The problem with the introduction of a change like this, at mid season, to a critical procedure of operating the car under race conditions, is the lack of testing. We go into a race with teams hoping that they have got it right without introducing new problems. It could be very costly, if they get it wrong. Penalties, fines and loss of points etc.

Surprised no-one has raised the possibility of Mercedes being ready for this since silverstone, it seems too much of a coincidence that both cars have suddenly started having bad starts. Have they been working on getting it right in the knowledge they'd probably find their way to the front anyway (backfired in Hungary) so that they were on the front foot from Spa onwards. Why else would the mercs suddenly start both having starts where they are passed off the line, hasn't happened at all for the last 2 years.

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Originally Posted by Robinho

Surprised no-one has raised the possibility of Mercedes being ready for this since silverstone, it seems too much of a coincidence that both cars have suddenly started having bad starts. Have they been working on getting it right in the knowledge they'd probably find their way to the front anyway (backfired in Hungary) so that they were on the front foot from Spa onwards. Why else would the mercs suddenly start both having starts where they are passed off the line, hasn't happened at all for the last 2 years.

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That thought had crossed my mind. Even if they have not been doing the new driver-only start procedure in full, (people surely would have noticed the change in procedure through team radio etc), they could have been laying some groundwork. If they go off like rockets at Spa then that will be a bit of a clue.

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Originally Posted by Robinho

Surprised no-one has raised the possibility of Mercedes being ready for this since silverstone, it seems too much of a coincidence that both cars have suddenly started having bad starts. Have they been working on getting it right in the knowledge they'd probably find their way to the front anyway (backfired in Hungary) so that they were on the front foot from Spa onwards. Why else would the mercs suddenly start both having starts where they are passed off the line, hasn't happened at all for the last 2 years.

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It did cross my mind that they were hedging their bets abit. It think they may have been secretly testing part of the new manual launch system. It would make sense when you think back to how casual Lewis and Nico was about the issues they were having. Lauda was not on his usual critical self after the Hungarian GP. My money is on Mercedes trying to get a jump on the rest of the field, which would be the smart thing to do.

Not sure about the "jump" theory here , as it's risking the win when they know they are vulnerable in dirty air .

The poor starts may have been more due to them having to turn up the wick a bit with Ferrari closing in .
As you add more power , you will naturally get more issues getting it to the pavement .

If you add that all the teams should have been aware this was going to happen at about the same time , one would expect more issues throughout the grid , as others would surely be doing the same thing , and we didn't really see that , so I'm a little skeptical .

If the Mercedes drivers struggled with current launch system i´m sure it wont be better at Spa.

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Originally Posted by Big Ben

I just wonder why do they need to pass that info over the radio?

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They don't.

The clutches are very sensitive and the biting point can change with different conditions including with the powertrain warming up.

The biting point would be found on the warm up lap with the driver having to do complicated procedures to get the clutch to set itself up.

The new rules forbid drivers from setting the clutch up during the warm up lap, ie after the car has left the garage. The rules also forbid the pits from telling the driver how to set the clutch to find the biting point, the pits don't do anything and never have to set up the clutch directly.

It might introduce new problems as the clutch was never designed for manual starts, but hopefully new fixes are on the way. Its just another added expense for the teams.

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

The poor starts may have been more due to them having to turn up the wick a bit with Ferrari closing in .
As you add more power , you will naturally get more issues getting it to the pavement .

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I doubt the Mercedes problem has anything to do with power or increased power. If that was the case then what we would have seen at the start of the Hungarian GP would have been lots of wheel spin and smoke with no traction. But what really happened was the car bugged down with a dip in revs and no wheel spin which suggest it was a clutch problem.

Interesting suggestion but my guess is the clutch rather than engine power. Note l said guess.

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

I doubt the Mercedes problem has anything to do with power or increased power. If that was the case then what we would have seen at the start of the Hungarian GP would have been lots of wheel spin and smoke with no traction. But what really happened was the car bugged down with a dip in revs and no wheel spin which suggest it was a clutch problem.

Interesting suggestion but my guess is the clutch rather than engine power. Note l said guess.

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No spin and smoke might indicate they anticipated less traction than they got , couldn't it ?
Just a spinning clutch rather than tires .

Of course , I'm totally guessing as well .

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

No spin and smoke might indicate they anticipated less traction than they got , couldn't it ?
Just a spinning clutch rather than tires .

Of course , I'm totally guessing as well .

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I can't argue with that, whatever the case, the powertrain did not mesh well to generate a decent traction.

Who's gonna ace it from the start tomorrow?

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

Who's gonna ace it from the start tomorrow?

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After getting spanked (again) in qualifying, Nico Rosberg seemed to suggest that this might be his opportunity to shine. Putting the start in his hands, yes, that might allow him to show his stuff.


He was wrong.


Again.

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Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

After getting spanked (again) in qualifying, Nico Rosberg seemed to suggest that this might be his opportunity to shine. Putting the start in his hands, yes, that might allow him to show his stuff.


He was wrong.


Again.

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I figured he might be given that in Austria Hamilton had to find the bite point all by himself and did a pretty good job of it. He could have failed and gone into anti-stall but that feel he has for the car allowed him to get away reasonably well considering his troubles.

He is the awesomest.