LOTOS 73rd Rally Poland 2016

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2nd July 2016, 14:38
Mirek

Lappi in the lead of WRC2. Both Finns a lot faster than Evans this time.
2nd July 2016, 14:41
AL14

Fun fact: if Tanak will win this, the 2nd,3rd and 4th drivers in the championship will not have won a single rally while 5th,6th,7th,8th and 9th did.

That's another outcome of this farce that I really hope will end next year.
2nd July 2016, 14:51
stefanvv

Quote:

Originally Posted by AL14

Fun fact: if Tanak will win this, the 2nd,3rd and 4th drivers in the championship will not have won a single rally while 5th,6th,7th,8th and 9th did.

That's another outcome of this farce that I really hope will end next year.

Yeap, it is fun to have so many different winners. But it shouldn't last for long indeed.
2nd July 2016, 14:51
Raini

Different rally winners are only good to rallysport, dont remember even, when so many different drivers won within 6 rallies. But yes, the new generation of young guns are getting more and more comfortable in rally car and this year shows the result of hard working rally teams and drivers very well. But yes, if 5th - 9th place drivers are capable to win a rally, it is only a exciting thing to rallysport.
2nd July 2016, 14:52
Ross99

Yes, because Sordo and Ostberg would have won otherwise.
2nd July 2016, 14:57
PLuto

Quote:

Originally Posted by AL14

Fun fact: if Tanak will win this, the 2nd,3rd and 4th drivers in the championship will not have won a single rally while 5th,6th,7th,8th and 9th did.

That's another outcome of this farce that I really hope will end next year.

I hope it will not change for next year. This is very good info for championship that there are different winners...
2nd July 2016, 15:00
Simmi

Quote:

Originally Posted by PLuto

I hope it will not change for next year. This is very good info for championship that there are different winners...

Yeah I think it's harsh to call it a complete farce. It does show that some strength in depth is returning to the championship. And unpredictability in what has been the most predictable form of motorsport for years can't be bad. For now I think we should embrace the positives we are seeing - and then next season go back to just a single day or road sweeping for the championship leader.

In a brief conversation between Jarmo Mahonen and Colin Clark yesterday he did sound like it might be changing next year.
2nd July 2016, 15:01
AL14

I respect everyone's opinion (of course)...

But I think all those Loeb victories, and Ogier afterwards have a bit obfuscated your meaning of "exciting".
2nd July 2016, 15:03
Mirek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raini

Different rally winners are only good to rallysport, dont remember even, when so many different drivers won within 6 rallies. But yes, the new generation of young guns are getting more and more comfortable in rally car and this year shows the result of hard working rally teams and drivers very well. But yes, if 5th - 9th place drivers are capable to win a rally, it is only a exciting thing to rallysport.

The current rules create somewhat strange situation when those who are higher in the championship standings instead of pulling away have to defend their lead until the championship comes on asphalt where if they can stay ahead will enjoy having a reasonable advantage over their pursuers. It's not that black and white like some portray it. The somewhat unpredictable outcome is not that bad. It gives motivation to other teams and drivers and it's fun for spectators (I admit not for all). It's just different rules but it's same for all. In the end it's a game and it depends on everyone how he plays his cards.
2nd July 2016, 15:05
Ross99

Quote:

Originally Posted by stefanvv

You have a point of course, but this happens to Sordo now as well, not only Ogier. And Sordo is doing very good job so far this season.

Sordo is only doing well, because others couldn't keep it on the road. This time around, no one's crashed (yet) so he has no way of gaining positions.
2nd July 2016, 15:07
Mariusz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross99

Sordo is only doing well, because others couldn't keep it on the road. This time around, no one's crashed (yet) so he has no way of gaining positions.

It looks you haven't watched any rally this season.
2nd July 2016, 15:10
eib1

Aasen

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmXYrHbUcAAgzb6.jpg
2nd July 2016, 15:14
Mirek

Maiden stage victory for Lefebvre.
2nd July 2016, 15:14
Ucci

R

Quote:

Originally Posted by AL14

That's another outcome of this farce that I really hope will end next year.

For me this is no farce....on the tarmac Ogier will show his speed. I like this situation.
2nd July 2016, 15:15
Mariusz

Lefebrvre wins SS15! Now it's 11,4 s between him and Breen.
2nd July 2016, 15:15
Ucci

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raini

Different rally winners are only good to rallysport, dont remember even, when so many different drivers won within 6 rallies. But yes, the new generation of young guns are getting more and more comfortable in rally car and this year shows the result of hard working rally teams and drivers very well. But yes, if 5th - 9th place drivers are capable to win a rally, it is only a exciting thing to rallysport.

Agree 100%
2nd July 2016, 15:16
Ucci

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirek

The current rules create somewhat strange situation when those who are higher in the championship standings instead of pulling away have to defend their lead until the championship comes on asphalt where if they can stay ahead will enjoy having a reasonable advantage over their pursuers. It's not that black and white like some portray it. The somewhat unpredictable outcome is not that bad. It gives motivation to other teams and drivers and it's fun for spectators (I admit not for all). It's just different rules but it's same for all. In the end it's a game and it depends on everyone how he plays his cards.

Agree 100%
2nd July 2016, 15:16
Ross99

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mariusz

It looks you haven't watched any rally this season.

I still hold on to my statement. Sordo is mediocre on gravel and even if he wasn't starting 2nd, he would only fight with the Fords for 9th-10th at best.
2nd July 2016, 15:21
stefanvv

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ucci

R

For me this is no farce....on the tarmac Ogier will show his speed. I like this situation.

By China/France he might well be already a champion and not giving everything for the win. But he might.
2nd July 2016, 15:21
seb_sh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross99

I still hold on to my statement. Sordo is mediocre on gravel and even if he wasn't starting 2nd, he would only fight with the Fords for 9th-10th at best.

I disagree. It's true, sometimes he benefits from others going off and he's not a gravel ace but usually he's not as slow. This rally is unusually bad for him partly due to his starting position partly due to himself.
2nd July 2016, 15:22
Mirek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross99

I still hold on to my statement. Sordo is mediocre on gravel and even if he wasn't starting 2nd, he would only fight with the Fords for 9th-10th at best.

He was 4th in ALL gravel rounds of 2016 season until now.
2nd July 2016, 15:30
dimviii

ss 15

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmXcueEXgAAZCQD.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmXb3gXWIAA-Epx.jpg:large
2nd July 2016, 15:34
ELPE

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raini

Different rally winners are only good to rallysport, dont remember even, when so many different drivers won within 6 rallies. But yes, the new generation of young guns are getting more and more comfortable in rally car and this year shows the result of hard working rally teams and drivers very well. But yes, if 5th - 9th place drivers are capable to win a rally, it is only a exciting thing to rallysport.

Fun with younger drivers start driving fast. The question to ask is how well has this generation been. Loeb, of course, and perhaps Ogier, but then? If you think of the 90s with Sainz, McRae, Burns, Eriksson, Mäkkinen, Kankunen, Auriol, Gronholm with more so there was always 5 maybe 10 drivers who could win a race. Feels like it's been very thin at the top the last 10 years and too easy for Loeb and Ogier to line up the championship.
2nd July 2016, 15:43
Mirek

Quote:

Originally Posted by ELPE

Fun with younger drivers start driving fast. The question to ask is how well has this generation been. Loeb, of course, and perhaps Ogier, but then? If you think of the 90s with Sainz, McRae, Burns, Eriksson, Mäkkinen, Kankunen, Auriol, Gronholm with more so there was always 5 maybe 10 drivers who could win a race. Feels like it's been very thin at the top the last 10 years and too easy for Loeb and Ogier to line up the championship.

Or it was vice versa. Who can tell? Maybe just Loeb and Ogier are so exceptional that the others look worse than they are? Don't forget that Loeb sent one whole generation of these drivers to retirement...
2nd July 2016, 16:06
stefanvv

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirek

Or it was vice versa. Who can tell? Maybe just Loeb and Ogier are so exceptional that the others look worse than they are? Don't forget that Loeb sent one whole generation of these drivers to retirement...

And then Ogier sent Loeb in retirement.
2nd July 2016, 16:07
Mirek

No, he didn't. When Loeb retired Ogier didn't defeat him every here and there, quite the opposite.
2nd July 2016, 16:11
dimviii

Mads Østberg ‏@MadsOstberg

SS16 7:35.1 "Managed to take 1 tenth of Dani, not bad eh? hehe. Its difficult, you have to fight for what you can fight for" #wrc

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmXnkVRWAAATFU_.jpg
2nd July 2016, 16:13
EstWRC

wuhuhuuuuuuuu
2nd July 2016, 16:14
stefanvv

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirek

No, he didn't. When Loeb retired Ogier didn't defeat him every here and there, quite the opposite.

You mean 2009?
2nd July 2016, 16:16
N.O.T

Quote:

Originally Posted by stefanvv

You mean 2009?

http://i.imgur.com/JC7GH7c.jpg
2nd July 2016, 16:22
stefanvv

It was just a normal question, but ok, I see where this is going, time to stop.
2nd July 2016, 16:23
AL14

19.5 seconds gap. That's good for Tanak he extended it. He can do it tomorrow if he doesn't make mistakes... Let's see.
2nd July 2016, 16:25
Mirek

Quote:

Originally Posted by stefanvv

You mean 2009?

Come on, You're not so stupid. In 2012 which was the last full season of Loeb Ogier didn't defeat Loeb even once except when Loeb retired but even in those cases Ogier wasn't ahead. Loeb had 9 victories and Ogier 0 in 2012, he even had 0 podiums. Loeb had 270 points and Ogier 41 (10th in the championship behind Prokop). You definition of sending into retirement is funny...
2nd July 2016, 16:27
N.O.T

Quote:

Originally Posted by mirek

come on, you're not so stupid.

lol...
2nd July 2016, 16:29
dimviii

Sat 17:25 - SS16: Bertelli
"There was a big bee in the car and it was very distracting. Later I missed a junction and lost five seconds."
2nd July 2016, 16:31
N.O.T

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirek

Come on, You're not so stupid. In 2012 which was the last full season of Loeb Ogier didn't defeat Loeb even once except when Loeb retired but even in those cases Ogier wasn't ahead. Loeb had 9 victories and Ogier 0 in 2012, he even had 0 podiums. Loeb had 270 points and Ogier 41 (10th in the championship behind Prokop). You definition of sending into retirement is funny...

in 2012 Ogier was in a skoda
2nd July 2016, 16:32
Mirek

Quote:

Originally Posted by N.O.T

in 2012 Ogier was in a skoda

OK. Now I'm the idiot. Fine :)

My appologize to everyone.
2nd July 2016, 16:38
Mirek

Kruuda stopped after the start with oil leak...
2nd July 2016, 16:40
N.O.T

when was the last time a Ford won ?
2nd July 2016, 16:46
seb_sh

Quote:

Originally Posted by stefanvv

And then Ogier sent Loeb in retirement.

hardly. Loeb had been in a WRC drive since 2002, first full season 2003, that's a pretty long time. Just because Ogier appeared at the end of Loeb's career doesn't mean he 'sent' him into retirement.

On the other hand, for example McRae was more or less left without a drive when the rules changed to 2 car teams and Loeb was preferred.

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