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Actually 3,9M€ in the latest accounting period (2018, I guess it's 1-12) and 6,8M€ in 2017.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarmop
One would have to dig in a bit deeper to Tommi Mäkinen Oy's financial statements in order to find out how that has actually been generated.
Being #1 can also mean having teamates that would swap positions to give you some bonus points, and for the moment I don't see Toyota playing that game.Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
To be fair, when have they had the chance to do it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredouye
Tänak has always been either ahead of his teammates or the car has broken down and he has been too far away from them.
He was advised to send in new steering racks to Sardegna to be changed in remaining cars (Latvala retired due to the same problem). He decided not to do this although they were aware of the steering issue and the faulty patch which caused it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartusvuori
Edit: and I'm quite sure Tänak went full mad mode after that, I've heard about it also.
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Some things that Tänak could be negotiating about
- The salary
- The length of the contract
- How much PR he has to do for Toyota
- His role on developing the new hybrid car
- Having confirmed #1 driver status, with other drivers helping him by default
- Having as much test days as he needs, even if it means less for the others
- Having the new parts in his car always first
- The balance between basic salary and the win bonuses
- This is just my idea, but maybe he would like to have a some sort of compensational win bonus if he's winning and the Toyota breaks down
-Able to give the Safari a miss, if he does not want the full round of vaccine shots necessary to go to that part of Africa.
The toyota negotiators probably also have at the back of their mind, how much is being spent on the LMP 1 program. (also being spent on EV R & D etc)
I dont think its about that he feels threatened by them, just its hard to play teamgame if his teammates are thinking that they are fighting for championships like Meeke starting from Monte. One thing is that its hard to stay in competition for manufactures champs if one guy is bringing points and other two are failing most of the time. If u look statistics how much points Tänak has collected or how much Latvala+Meeke are collected together then its pretty sad. Also after Turkey Citröen wasnt too much far behind after double podium with manufac points but they are running only two cars vs Toyotas 3 cars. And the other thing is ofcourse that its hard to fight drivers champs if u dont have proper wingmans. Im not talking only about team commands, just how many times Meeke and Latvala have made mistake by pushing on the limit and given away points to championship rivals or just not keeping pressure from behind.Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
It seems to me like Meeke for now has got to understanding what his assinmnent is, but does he understand it if the point page is blank again in next Monte? Or he thinks that he could fight for championship again and fuck up his season again. I think if he would have been played smart this season and played team game from the beginning of the season he would have seat for next year, but atm it seems like its Citron all over again, and im not so sure.
Also for Latvala, its seems that he cant play team game in because some problems in his head. In Vw years he was nr 2 in team, and was making mistakes. In Toyota debute year when he kinda was team nr 1 driver, it seemed like he gained a new breathing and performed pretty well and I was really happy, but as soon as Ott came to team, its Vw years all over again and seems like he is mentally broken or something, the same talk again and again that he cant make the setup right or doesent understand whats the problem is but car isnt performing well, although he is one of the most experienced driver atm.
3,9M€ for TMR Finland and in addition 8,4M€ for TMR Estonia so that`s 12,3M€ combinedQuote:
Originally Posted by Allez Andruet
Both Meeke and Latvala have taken points off Tanak in PS. A lot of times they took points both off him and his rivals but a few times it was from Tanak and not from one of Ogier/Neuville.Quote:
Originally Posted by krissucool
At Hyundai Mikkelsen was directly instructed not to push on PS a few times (Sweden, Argentina, Turkey, GB), but also took points off Neuville and Ogier in Sardinia pushing for more manu points by passing Evans.
That's right. I didn't check the OÜ stats at all. That's quite something tbh. 12,3M€ net (?) profit with 82M€ turnover. If I had a business to run I might pick up the phone and call Tommi.Quote:
Originally Posted by AMSS
The problem is many times Meeke and JML have crashed or made a mistake while trying to compete with Tänak. TGR and Tänak have lost valuable points in their respective chapionship battles because of that while Ogier and Neuville have gained a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oraamat
Nobody in Citroën or Hyundai even dares to compete with their number one driver even if sometimes sidekicks are in front for a while.
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with this i just remembered Wales GB power stage, Lappi was holding his breath when he saw that Ogier was just tiny bit faster than him on splits, and what a relief he had after Ogier had finished and Lappi saw that Ogier was faster him :DQuote:
Originally Posted by cali
It's a tricky balance trying to take points off your team-mates rivals but not beat him too. Plus there's no splits in the car now to judge your speed and the times are generally very close.
what did he sell Tommi and made so much profits?Quote:
Originally Posted by Allez Andruet
This: https://www.linkedin.com/company/tom...inen-racing-oyQuote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
With all those TGR badges, people tend to forget that Makinen’s company (TMR) is an external partner developing and running the Yaris on behalf and expenses of Toyota.
The huge profits are hardly a surprise: he’s cashing in before Toyota decides to pull out, wisely preparing TMG future (as Richards/Prodrive and Wilson/MSport did in Subaru and Ford golden years).
PS: TMR's Estonian branch isn't yet mentioned on the link.
That would be weird; profits from running the Japanese young drivers are certainly a drop in the ocean, compared to TMR full TGR WRC program.Quote:
Originally Posted by tcrown
Well, in addition, there is one lady there, apparently doing most of the leading thing...:D
But asking money under the table...hard or impossible to believe. One word from Märtin/Tänak to Japanese and they lose the project, the huge profit.
Mia Miettinen is officially leading the two companies (TMR OY and OÜ) together with Mäkinen. Before joining forces with Tommi, she was the CEO of BMW Finland. Whatever the rumors say, based on her CV there's no doubt she knows the corporate leadership part quite well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarmop
https://www.rallit.fi/toyotan-wrc-ti...vat-paikkansa/
A nice observation: these are the three last times that Toyota announced their driver lineups
18th Oct 2016
18th Oct 2017
17th Oct 2018
So...come Thursday and Friday, maybe some news?
this doesnt ''sell'' something.Just uses money from the biggest manufacturer to promote his brand at wrcQuote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
Last time Tommi had a company that sell something,bunkrupted.
there is no harm for some more hundreds thousand euros.Not weird at all for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
Toyotas healthy economical days have a date expire.And most would have to look for the next day.
here you go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MFD...ature=youtu.beQuote:
Originally Posted by cali
make some popcorn and grab a beer
Colin Clark & Andrea Adamo in the kitchen... not really that interesting except on the future of WRC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Mail
It’s pretty clear: TMR sells goods (prepared rally cars and parts) and services (developing, testing and running the cars) to his client, Toyota; besides no matter how big Toyota is, for sure their WRC budget isn’t randomly planned.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Btw, TMR troubles in 2010 can be explained by a slowing demand for N4 cars and a huge investement on new facilities, during a global finantial crisis; besides he was working for private costumeurs, not to a big corp like Toyota.
How stupid could someone be to risk loosing a multimillion WRC client for cheating him on a secondary program? That alleged ‘under the table’ deal simply doesn’t make sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
People keep complaining, especially in Estonia, how Meeke and Latavala keep stealing PS points from Tänak. It did not sound quite right to me so I took a look at the results this year. Both of them have overall "stolen" exactly 0 points from Tänak in PS. Both "stole" 1 point (Argentina and Mexico) and also "gave" him one point in Germany. Btw, both Latvala in Argentina and Meeke in Mexico lost to Ogier only by 0,1 seconds so they were both very close to actually giving Tänak a point overall.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Here is the overall rankings of "Best powerstage supporting teammate so far" I put together:
1. Sordo - Helped Neuville increase gap to Tänak by 2 points.
2. Lappi - Helped Ogier increase gap to Tänak and Neuville by 1 point.
3. Mikkelsen- Helped Neuville increase gap to Ogier by 1 points.
4. Latvala - Did not increase nor decrease gap between Tänak and rivals
4. Meeke - Did not increase nor decrease gap between Tänak and rivals
From here you could argue that Latvala and Meeke are the worst PS teammates. Maybe so, but by a small margin. Overall they have not stolen points from Tänak and you cannot say others are significantly better than them. The gaps are too small to claim who would be the best choice for the future. The bosses will have to use other figures :)
that couldnt happened without toyota money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
Anyway probbly you didnt understand my post.
What i was trying to say is that,of course you will have a big profit running a very healthy budget.
Its impossible to run this business ,with financial losses.
So that he makes these profits isnt a surprise.
at these days were plenty of other teams worldwide that were running N4 cars and they were profitable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
So the problem wasnt the global financial crisis,but something else.
Greediness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
Oh yes it is, very possible. Making a profit and having a healthy budget are two totally different things.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
And who cares if some previous business of Mäkinen's hasn't been that successful? That just makes the story even more magnificent. Success after failure, what could be better?
It's not where you're from, it's where you're at.
yes they are different,but Tommi wouldnt put his money to run Toyota programm if it wasnt profitable,nor he would be satisfied to run a multiyear wrc programm for 200.000 euros.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allez Andruet
So these profits are logic,and couldnt be different in ANY way.
were you are here,would be almost everybody who run this programm with this budget.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allez Andruet
We have to give credits to Tommi for other things,not for his financial capabilities.
Sorry but no, I don't buy it. Not claiming Tommi would be the second coming of Warren Buffett but it's complete nonsense that "everybody could run it" with the budget Toyota has given him and his company. How much of it is because of Tommi himself? Hard to say, but at the end of the day that's quite irrelevant. It's Tommi who has built the team and hired the people around himself making all this possible, no-one else.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Interesting case isn't it? Lappi certainly wanted to take away points from Ogier's rivals, but not Ogier himself. The muddy roads didn't make that easy task.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
Sorry but this is not correct, they have each stolen 1 point off Tanak when they didn't need to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kradovech
In Germany they took 2 points off Ogier, but not Neuville. That didn't "give" Tanak anything. Even if they drove at snail pace it wouldn't give him anything cause he had only 3 brakes from the stage before. Which the team knew before PS started, so there was no choice there.
When you "steal" 2 points and then if you "give" 2 back (which is not correct as just explained), you still stole two. This way result is 0, while it could have been +2 for Tanak.
Sure it's not a massive difference. But it's completely unnecessary when the team's goal should be to have one driver to win the WDC and by Mexico it imo was quite clear it will be Tanak. Surely by Argentina.
If you would be really hardcore for manu title push you'd actually forbid your drivers to push at all on PS. Cause any extra points move drivers up in drivers standings which results in worse starting position on gravel, but nobody has taken it so far yet.
Imo for bosses (and for Tanak) it's not so much about the 1-2 points, but about knowing what your job is. This was great with Meeke in GB on Saturday, when he couldn't keep up with the top3 he didn't try harder and crash but kept 4 place for very important points. But this kind approach should have started 5-6 rallies earlier. I'd guess Tanak would certainly want it from the start of the season. Cause with 2 other cars on decent points he could afford to push a bit harder with some risk of crashing when needed.
what do you mean,that Malcolm or Richards would have failed financialy with this budget?Quote:
Originally Posted by Allez Andruet
Probably you dont read properly my posts.
So i will write it again.
we have to give credits to Tommi for other things(his choices at every level generally) but NOT for his financial results.
Hope that now is clear that i write about the FINANCIAL RESULTS.
No, never said that.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Then who gets the credit for them? Toyota has invested x millions to run a WRC program and someone is able to do it successfully AND make some millions of profit seemingly each year. Someone does it, that's quite obvious. If the man running the business does not get the credit for it, then who does?Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
when you have so big budget,there is no credit that you managed to dont bankrupt and make profits.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allez Andruet
Everybody would do that.Maybe some others could make more profit,bot no one would bunkrupt,when the budget is so huge.
I would give a credit when he managed that, with less budget from competitors,like Cowan.
Yes it did give Tänak something. If they had not finished before Ogier the gap between them now would be 36 points, not 38. Yes, in this instance it was a no brainer to have them push because of Tänak's situation but you cannot deny them credit for finishing before Ogier.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
This is where I disagree with you. The team could go for strategy A - teammates hold back to make sure they do not take away points from #1 driver (unless they need to push to keep their overall position) This way it is quaranteed they will finish with 0 result - nothing taken away but also providing no help. A risk free solutionQuote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Strategy B - in this case would be to have them push so they take away points from rivals and with a possibility of jackpot when their #1 driver finishes before them. This is a risk-reward type of situation. You cannot quarantee you will finish faster than rivals - its a race afterall. So sometimes you will have a negative effect, sometimes neutral effect and sometimes apositive effect. You cannot judge this strategy based on any one race IMO. You will have to check the overall effect in the end of the season and then you can say if "strategy A" had been a better choice or not. So in that sense my ranking above was a bit premature, Latvala and Meeke still have 2 rounds where they can "steal" or "give" points.
Agreed that knowing your job in the team is what actually matters. So in this instance it depends if teams orders for Latvala in Argentina and for Meeke in Mexico were to push on PS or to hold back. If the order was to push according to "strategy B", I dont see a need to blame then. They tried and failed by 0,2 seconds in both cases - you cant win them all. But if the order was to hold back and they went out and pushed anyway then that is a different story completely. We will never know which of these 2 cases it was, or if it was some 3rd case for that matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Overall we are indeed talking about a few points only. (although in the end it might come down to just that, you never know) The real criticism against Latvala and Meeke is their inabilty to finish before Neuville and Ogier overall - that is where they really could have given Tänak/ taken from rivals a significant amount of points. I don't really hold it against them, in that case the championship may have already been decided, now there are some exiting weekends ahead.
Guys.. Your over thinking it. 10s between 4 or 5 drivers? For 99% of the time, there is no room for strategy. Its just flat out.
https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/...0836#gs.ah81st
More Tänak-related rumors from Finland. Finnish media outlet MTV3 is reporting that Adamo met with Märtin during Rally Estonia and was left under impression that they were very close to finalize the deal. Turned out that wasn't the case though, and Adamo was somewhat angered by this turn of events. The story also claims that Tänak had already agreed in principle to sign Toyota's contract proposal, but changed his mind at the very last minute and came back with additional demands. Mäkinen obviously wasn't too pleased with this kind of approach.
I wonder do all actual related parties for all this contract mess also eat popcorn and read peoples nice fantasies what kind of divas they are, what are their requirements, who did what and when...
thankfully this will end soon
but yeah, it seems to me that the rally media hasnt got nothing to write about, so they come out with all sorts of ideas about Tänaks contract.
Yep. Looking forward to it ending so that the rest of the contracts can fall into place as well
It makes for some interesting speculation though
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it seems Toyota read it and decided to push it even further ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
You know something we don't? Because it's now 18th October and the whole day is still ahead ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC