He's already on Sordo's level after 14 WRC car outings.Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
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He's already on Sordo's level after 14 WRC car outings.Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
I mean good #2 might never win a rally.
Ive yet to see devestating pace.
SD doesnt look promising after all the talk for Citroen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmi
Yeah judging by SD they are still behind.
Sure shakedown was wet which is not where Citroen tested, but there is not much improvement and this is faster roads which should suit the car. We will know more after the weekend but does not look good for Citroen atm.
As most here know Mikkelsen's result in Poland for last years are 2nd, 2nd, 1st. Yes that was with Polo but even back in the day he did some very good stage times with Fabia WRC there. Also he was clearly faster than Sunninen earlier this year in 2 rallies in R5. Now on SD it's at best same place.
What's more both Lefevbre and Breen were quite fast in Poland last year.
Meeke could come out in a stronger position after this rally despite not even competing. Mikkelsen, a driver who isn't even contracted for more than a rally by rally basis is getting first dibs on the only C3 with the new parts on the car, whereas the man who's dragged the car to one win (would've been two if the car didn't pack it in in Corsica) gets dropped. This is just as Matton admits the team has fucked up badly with their risky strategies. Breen also deserves the new parts ahead of Andreas imo, but the fact he hasn't suggests this is because the team absolutely needs Mikkelsen to be setting front running times. If Andreas still can't be right at the front in Poland shit is going to hit the fan big time.
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This is like half-full vs half-empty glass discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
You could say that even Mikkelsen can't make it go fast. Meeke has been driving the car for a year on tests and still he mostly managed a lot of DNFs. The one win could easily have been 0, pure luck saved him in Mexico. Also note that in Mexico all the other cars had overheating issues and Hyundai also had the fuelpump issues on SS.
Imo there is also some development factor involved. Hyundai has been consistently fast since the start, Toyota mostly as well with some reliability issues. Ford had turn-in issues that seems to have been solved by Portugal.
So other cars are getting faster and faster and their drivers get more and more confidence in the cars. While Citroen drivers fight the car and all development is focused on making it behave instead of making if faster. Note that up to Sardinia Breen was quite consistent with 4-6th times. Now he seems to drop down as well.
Anyway let's wait until Sunday.
Thanks for the advice. I’ll ask my village newspaper to send me out.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomhlord
Let’s be clear: all journos in WRC official media and on the most influential motorsport press are brits. They tend to cover WRC in a biased way, forgetting the sport isn’t based in the UK and their public is worldwide spread. A little more independence would be very much welcomed.
And this continues:Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Finland: Meeke&Breen&Al-Qassimi C3
Deutchland: Meeke&Breen&Lefevbre&Mikkelsen C3
So what's next, can they come up with more combinations for the rest of the year? :D
I expect Carlos Sainz to join them from Rally Spain onwards :D.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
24 possible combinations, don't tempt them...
When looking to the results at Poland Mikkelsen doesn´t seem to be the solution to Citroen´s problems.
I'm not sure any driver is.. maybe Meeke was overdriving it to get it to go that fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by WUff1
He is saying it is changing from over- to understeering all the time.
does not look good so far, but maybe engineers can help at first service?
Does not look good, I was hoping for improvement. Cheering for Citroën to sort out their problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
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No 'maybe' about it! Meeke should be awarded the Legion d'Honneur for actually having won a round in the bloody thing. Anyone can look good in a Polo.....Quote:
Originally Posted by RS
Could have been two if it hadn't blown up in Corsica too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mintexmemory
Ah so Citroen do have problems...I thought it was all made up by British journalists....
Attachment 1362
I should of kept meeke for poland
Best result of the year for Meeke... and he didnt have to leave Dungannon.
So mr. Meeke is probably the fastest rally driver atm. Matton worst wrc team boss atm.
It now looks certain that Kris Meeke has been the scape goat in all this. To me it now seems 100% that the C3 has some serious problems and the drivers are just trying their best to drive it quick but make mistakes as it seems to be a very unforgiving car. Just makes you think, how the hell did Kris win in Mexico with it?
Yes and after having used 4 jokers to try and sort.
Who was the main developer of the car? I still think all three (driver, car, team managment) are very much connected and to blame. Although i must admit, i`m not blaming Meeke so much anymore.
Meeke was the main developer. So he musk take some of the blame here. At the same time Citöen should have brought in someone else to have a second and third opinion. The whole team is to blame and Matton most of all. Its just a disaster how things are. Mikkelsen coming in as the "rescue" is not giving results and his interview before the rally is just embarassing looking at his times so far.
They brought Mikkelsen in to get a second opinion, probably at least 6 months late. Seems like that opened up some changes, question is off course if such drastic changes require whole lot of other adjustments to work or if they wont help.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric
Whole testing was on dry, so not that much surprise they don't have good setup for wet with the "new" car.
Specially considering they didn't have good setup for both Monte and Sweden. One should rather wonder why/if Breen and Lefevbre don't have good setup even with the old parts. Didn't they test original version of the car in wet/slippery condition?
Btw. I still don't see how crashing on Friday in 3 rallies in a row is a good approach.
a) very low test km in a rally
b) repair bill
You don't know what Meeke reported in testing and how Citroen responded. I suspect a certain amount of engineering arrogance may have gone down along the way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric
Is he from Dungannon? :oQuote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
Absolutely this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mintexmemory
I've always wondered where he's from. They don't seem to report in during the TV coverage.Quote:
Originally Posted by dupanton
most usefull post at this subject.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mintexmemory
Didn't Xavier Mestelan Pinon, the man who was the lead on the previous WRC and WTCC efforts, go and work in Formula E instead?
Since Italy it become obvious the C3 has major problems. No point to elude neither them nor Meeke's driving issues, which are known from a long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
More than keep playing a blaming game, what any rally fan can wish is that Citroen is able to fix the car or start to draw ASAP a new one for 2018.
I've mentioned Peugeot case before: the initial '15 Dakar proto was a flop but they didn't spend much time trying to improve it; they've choose to design a new car for '16 and it became a winning machine. Probably that's what Citroen needs to do.
Yes, but his replacement was said to have been involved since the C4 WRC days, so...Quote:
Originally Posted by tomhlord
What struck me today was when Mikkelsen said that the setup they worked on during testing (in the dry) is not good for the wet. How could they think it was going to be? Looking at onboards from SS2, his car seems to be much much harder set up than ie. Ogier's...
So fake news on both sides of the Atlantic puddle then!!!!???Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
Who will tweet Trump to give him a heads up? :bounce:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mintexmemory
Which again shows a lot about Meeke if even his own engineers do not take him seriously and do not listen to him. But then again that is probably not what happened.
What is definitely clear is that everyone, including Citroen, pre season, thought they had the best car, and what is obvious now is that on gravel, so far, the car is a disappointment pace wise other than Meeke who gets the set up right and then over drive it and crash.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lousada
My guess, like most people, is that it is likely damper related considering that they seem to have pace on tarmac rounds where it is less important.
How about to stop the useless blame talk? None of us knows how it was.
It will be interesting to see if Mikkelsen starts to get a handle on the car, but perhaps the changes he influenced end up moving it out of the comfort zone of Meeke and Breen. Future events will tell better with more normal conditions. And he could still end up leaving the team after Germany. Would be quite ironic.
Good point. None of the teams really knew where they sat pace-wise pre-season.Quote:
Originally Posted by itix
Or aero, or possibly a combination of both.Quote:
Originally Posted by itix
Seems to me the C3 doesn't look as efficient in aero department, not that I'm an expert, but there is an old saying that if it looks right, it probably is right.
What I have found, as a basic road car the C3 has the worst aero efficiency of the four cars the wrc cars are based on.
Citroen C3 0.307
Ford Fiesta 0.287
Toyota Yaris 0.29
Hyundai i20 coupe 0.3
Ok, the last two I have not found exact figures for, and the Hyundai, which appears to be the best car this year so far is closer than the rest in coefficiency figures, but it does look more aggressively styled at the front.