Totally agree with Mirek, everywhere there is always some situations where sometimes they "bend the rules". Just bad sportmanship..
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Totally agree with Mirek, everywhere there is always some situations where sometimes they "bend the rules". Just bad sportmanship..
Guys, don't mix ''apples with pears''; I deliberately wrote : do not list cases from WRC events-if you drive let say two stages in lenght more than 60-70 km, than it can happen that the crew will drive on liassion without ''rubber''. Totally understandable and can be ignored (as it is!!).
But on a short event like San Marino-if all other crews had enough profiled tyres and Scandola not and if he drove with this tyres on tarmac special (remember-3th and 4th stages were tarmac stages!) and if Umberto held with this act advantage (it must be proven; until than he is unguilty), than he should be disqualified. Also a reminder to the rest!
Mirek-please never mention following (quote): 'it has been definitely breached by thousands of drivers and I'm pretty sure that Ucci or Racing Lions were many times among them in the past as well ''-if you do not have a proof of this act or similar thing, shout up and do not mention it. What I hate are negative rumors that somebody cheated in the past. Give a proof (photo, camera shot...) or forget it.
In every rally, be it WRC or 70 km long rallysprint, there are many crews on completely worn tyres. Always. Most of them simply because they don't have money for new tyres. According to the rules all shall be disqualified. I don't speak specifically about deliberate cheating. Most of cases when this rule is breached is not intentional but it's still a violation of that rule. Rules don't make a difference if it was intentional violation or not. Do You finally know what I mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ucci
Even what You say is illogical. First You say that rules are same for everybody and than You say that this is no WRC event with long stages. That's pure contradiction. If the rule is same for everybody than everybody must be punished for violation of that rule. The simple fact is that this rule is ignored for good reason - as it is in 99% violated without intention of cheating. The rule exists solely because of road sections and I believe that in the past it was applied only if traffic police complained.
This year on Rally TransItapúa, firrst round of the Codasur Championship in Paraguay, Gustavo Saba and Marcos Miltos were disqualified. The first two stages of the rally were on tarmac (with gravel tyres) and they deliberately worn the tyres out, to make them close to a slick tyre and have some advantage. After each stage the officials inspected each drivers tyres and that's why they realized that noth Saba and Miltos had worn tyres.
Yes, yes Mirek : all other drivers drove tarmac stage with gravel tyres with enough profile (you could not worn out them on so short gravel stages), just Umberto was there with very worn tyres, almost slicks ! You do not need to be a scientist to see that something was wrong. I do not say Umby& team were cheating-it must be proven ! But the fact is-tyres were totaly worn out (there is a nice photo on rallylink.it). Until Alpi Orientali at the end of August the court has to make a decission. I belive in their fair decission, until then I wish to Umby, Ucci, Basso & Co a pleasant holidays.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
P.S. nobody mentioned Cempedelli-he was very very fast on the second day. Nice...
I didn't say what You are trying to put in my mouth. I did say that if this rule shall be now out of the blue applied than almost all results of rally events held under FIA since this rule was created are in fact illegal (especially Loeb's victory in Cyprus 2009 which was 100% same case like this one). The rules simply state mandatory condition. It doesn't matter if the violation was intentional or not. Discussion about the cause of violation is completely irrelevant. Either the rule applies really for everybody or for nobody but to pick one driver to disqualify him is not correct (even if he really did it intentionally - which I believe he did). Just go to some Your local Slovenian rally to an entry CP of final service and check how many cars could be disqualified because their tyres are completely gone. Imagine You are their competitor. This rule gives You a tool how to remove some of Your opponents from final results.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ucci
The thing with protests is the protesting team has to put up money to be able to lodge a protest, so they have to be pretty certain they are right or risk losing that money if their protest isn't upheld.
However, anyone/team can protest the behaviour of another competitor/team. So they all have the right to do this if they see someone cheating, or even just mentioning to the CRO/CoC that they have seen something illegal. If they don't do that, they are disadvantaging themselves. The rules are meant to be followed, if you cheat/fail to comply, you are risking getting caught and a lot of the rules in rally work on an honour system, as the officials can't be everywhere, so you are reliant on your fellow competitors being honest, so sometimes you have to do something about that...
It's a calculated risk and sometimes someone will feel strongly enough about cheating to say something, although most of the time people just whinge. IF they did run with tyres that were low tread to get better grip (which makes sense as the tread blocks being shaved down means less tyre movement), then they did have an advantage and they got caught, that's only fair. Will be interesting to see what the outcome is.
That's true but first of all rules shall be fully applicable without exceptions. The problem with this rule is that it is not. It was created to fit with legal requirements on road sections not because of competitive aspects. This rule is automatically violated by everyone who has very worn tyres. So without any real intention to cheat everybody with worn tyres can be disqualified based on this rule - if any of his opponents wants to and appeal.
Don't get me wrong. I'm sure in this case it was intentional act by Scandola and his team. The problem is that nowhere in the rulebook it is said that only intentional violation of this rule is illegal. Therefore the rule is simply wrong and as such it's better to be ignored than to be used in random cases.
Rally Casentino for I.R.C. championship (valid also for Mitropa), a very special guest with Nb.1. This will be very good training for him for the upcoming tarmac WRC events. I have no doubt that he we'll win by a huge margin.....
http://www.scuderiaetruria.net/publi...%20%202014.pdf
And here is the car of this special guest:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ucci
http://www.rallylink.it/diretteweb/i...ino/livrea.jpg
Hmm, that logo.
Not surprisingly Kubica is leading after SS3 with 16.3 sec. ahead of Cresci
Despite flat tyre and brake problems as a result of this, Kubica won with a ''comfort'' margin over Felice Re(another victory for I.R.C.!!) and Corrado Fontana.
The most impressive result achived by Kubica was on 7th stage-stage's lenght 23, km and he was 42 seconds faster than the second F.Re.....that is almost 2sec/km...same category 1,6 l WRC....I'm speechless...
Yes, what an easy win for Kubica. Despite flat tyre and brake problems he was almost 3 minutes faster than Felice Re. I personally don't understand it. Kubica is not an exceptionally good driver, why are those IRC "stars" so slow?
Results of 34. RALLY INTERNAZIONALE DEL CASENTINO
1. Robert Kubica/Przemysław Mazur (PL) Ford Fiesta RS WRC 1:29.18,3
2. Felice Re/Mara Bariani (I) Citroën DS3 WRC +2.38,6
3. Corrado Fontana/Nicola Arena (I) Ford Focus RS WRC 08 +2.46,3
4. Luigi Ambrosoli/Silvio Stefanelli (I/RSM) Citroën C4 WRC +3.27,8
5. Rudy Michelini/Michele Perna (I) Citroën DS3 R5 +3.29,5
6. Alessandro Re/Giulio Turatti (I) Citroën DS3 RRC +8.18,1
7. Max Rendina/Mario Pizzuti (I) Ford Fiesta R5 +8.36,3
8. Roberto Vescovi/Giancarla Guzzi (I) Renault Clio R3 +9.35,9
9. Manuel Kössler/Benedikt Hofmann (D/A) Subaru Impreza WRX STI R4 +10.09,6
10. Andrea Dal Ponte/Enrico Tessaro (I) Renault Clio S1600 +10.25,0
http://www.rallylink.it/diretteweb/i...1_kubica__.jpg
Some nice photos from the good old Massimo Bettiol. His photos are not as exceptionally good as they used to be in the past, but still worth watching:
http://www.rallylink.it/diretteweb/i...sabato-la-gara
Video from the rally:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKYvRNYXARU
Overall he may not be exceptionally good rally driver, but on asphalt he is exceptionally quick and he has proven that multiple times. Don't really understand your confussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
I think that Ogier or Loeb are exceptionally quick on tarmac. As far as I know Kubica hasn't even won any important rally on tarmac in his whole career.Quote:
Originally Posted by thuGG
Anyway, here is some spectacular action from shakedown. It seems it was a great rally with very interesting stages.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq_668y1BIg
Another very good video with spectacular action (3 minutes). Recommended!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5_i-rLspMQ#t=16
Maybe that's because he didnt participate in any? Wait till germany, france and spain. He will win at least one of them. Mark my words. Last year in spain on some stages he was under 0,6 sek/sek slower then best wrc car on rrc ds3.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
Kubica seems to have the skill to hold the car on the limit, but where he seems to falter is doing that consistently? Ie he can get himself up into a good position and post excellent times, but lacks the consistency of a Loeb or Ogier? And eventually makes a mistake. So perhaps a rally like this one with only 7 stages, is much more of a sprint and therefore suited to his skills?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
I have never thought about it this way, but you may be right. Maybe Kubica is good only in short rallies?Quote:
Originally Posted by Munkvy
Don´t forget Jänner Rallye 2014. But it was more than lucky that he finished there.
Everyone must remember one thing before making any conclusion. This is the guy second season ever raling on regular basic. It is like Ogier did karting few times in his life, then one season in some gp3 or other minor series, and next season he would end up in F1 being jugded by F1 funs by comparing him with alonso every time he makes mistake. Not very fair, is it.
I guess you first have to participate in major tarmac rally to win it (that's assuming only WRC rally is a major rally).Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
Ehm... ask Gronholm or Kankkunen about Ypres rally ;) There are very difficult asphalt events outside WRC where WRC regulars often failed in the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by thuGG
Exactly. That's what I'm talking about. First you have to win a rally so that later people can call you fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by thuGG
Ok, but I think the rule "you have to participate in order to win it" still applies ;PQuote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Not necessarily, you can show that you are fast but erratic (not consistent). He showed that many times, last was Monte Carlo, when he won some stages, and on the long stage he was on pace with Ogier, but ended in a ditch. Fast and erratic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
Not making it completely OT, here are some Kubica onboards from Rally del Casentino:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJQfo6kUiPM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFd46cJp89c
Also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TaSS8EhG94
awesome the last video with best of!Quote:
Originally Posted by thuGG
I'm not a fan of bonnet view in the other ones
Imho Kubica on the tarmac is very close to the VW-guys
I found an article of last year about personal setup by Kubica, directly from his f1 experience for tarmac rally
http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/show.php?id=...ms-v-roce-2014
should be interesting to know the differences with common setup adopted
I mark your words but i think its difficult to win.i believe he will be on podium and he will win some ss.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuba Raddatz
Details please!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
If I'm not mistaken both Grönholm and Kankkunen crashed on the very first stage of Ypres. Duval did the same in 2009 and Sarrazin didn't get much farther :)
As factory drivers?(gronholm,kankkunen)
Hups, now I realized that with Grönholm it was not Ypres but another Belgian rally - Bianchi (in Wallonie). he was there as privateer in 1998. Kankkunen in Ypres was as factory driver in 1995 I think.
I think it was in 1995 or 1996. Kankkunen came with the factory Toyota Celica GT-Four in Castrol colours. There was big hype about it, it was a big event, but... he went off into a ditch on the very first stage :) I saw it on TV only, maybe Belgian friends will tell you more details...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
http://foto.rallyonline.pl/GALERIA/d...nnen%20kdm.jpg
It was in 1995, the same year of the fatal accident. I was on the first stage and never saw KKK if I recall correctly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
Here he is: http://youtu.be/hWmt9KNwNYE?t=30s
Yep, big off by Gronholm in Bianchi 1998:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tSRwPcdp9Y
Quote:
Originally Posted by HaCo
Crash of KKK was even filmed: http://youtu.be/hWmt9KNwNYE?t=7m12s :D
One more factory driver who was caught out by demanding stages of Ypres was Scandola in 2006. :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=er4Ea4XIBbU
At least he saved his helmet :)
Yes, it's the famous "submarine accident" :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Filip