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I would have probably voted Loeb, Ogier and KKK as well. Since once could submit only the top 3, I'm surprised they could make a top 50 list, you'd think not more than 20 drivers would get a vote. I guess the troll votes for Serderidis, Shinozuka etc. actually had a great impact :DQuote:
Originally Posted by cali
I put Loeb 3 times :P
Does KKK stand for Kankkunen?
Either that or you're in the wrong forum :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Berke
https://youtu.be/CFghtD7QQ4I
If you have an hour or so to spare and want to watch a great film about the Tuthill Porsche team's attack on the Classic Safari rally can highly recommend this production. Gives you a proper feel for the challenge.
https://twitter.com/AnttiL_WRC/statu...78683298926594
Started my own TOP50 drivers based on data.
41 Jean Ragnotti
42 Timo Mäkinen
43 Per Eklund
44 Mikael Ericsson
45 Francois Duval
46 Armin Schwarz
47 Jean-Claude Andruet
48 Esapekka Lappi
49 Hayden Paddon
49 Bruno Saby (tied)
Thanks a lot AnttiL! Will be great list and totally different than DirtFish ridiculous voting..Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Just seen this: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=439069494974583 and boy do I miss Subaru & their Impreza, I mean sure, the post 2017 cars are something else, but that blue & gold (yellow) livery with those gold alloys sure look good almost 18 years later!
Part twoQuote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
https://twitter.com/AnttiL_WRC/statu...59133984452609
31 Gilles Panizzi
32 Bernard Darniche
33 Jean-Pierre Nicolas
34 Kris Meeke
35 Jean-Luc Therier
36 Michele Mouton
37 Mads Østberg
38 Harri Rovanperä
39 Shekhar Mehta
40 Henri Toivonen
Part threeQuote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
https://twitter.com/AnttiL_WRC/statu...37150471737344
21 Richard Burns
22 Timo Salonen
23 Kalle Rovanperä
24 Dani Sordo
25 Sandro Munari
26 Elfyn Evans
27 Kenneth Eriksson
28 François Delecour
29 Markko Märtin
30 Andreas Mikkelsen
Part fourQuote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
https://twitter.com/AnttiL_WRC/statu...18344555536384
11 Walter Röhrl
12 Hannu Mikkola
13 Jari-Matti Latvala
14 Petter Solberg
15 Ott Tänak
16 Mikko Hirvonen
17 Thierry Neuville
18 Björn Waldegård
19 Stig Blomqvist
20 Ari Vatanen
I never realized Latvala won more WRC events than Hirvonen (or Solberg), and yet he's never been a serious contender for the title...Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
but he is ,,better,, than many world champions :DQuote:
Originally Posted by focus206
I think you are missing the point of this listing. I'm giving points for certain achievements like win is 100 points and champion title 1000 points. Thus, winning 10 rallies is equal to a world title. Some drivers have more wins, some more podiums, some more stage wins, some more finishes etc. Lack in one area can be compensated with success in another. It is very interesting to see the result unfold. Otherwise we could just use the ewrc-results world title list and settle for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by TypeR
And in case you're just angry because JML is above Tänak, fear not, Tänak would climb ahead already by winning Monte. In any case he will most likely climb soon to #11 ahead of Mikkola and Röhrl as well, maybe even to top ten. :)
I understand your system but For my taste, I would put all the world championships winning drivers as first 19 and then after them the guys who haven’t won a championship.
For me it’s weird to see Latvala ahead of Kalle, Ott, Solberg, Vatanen, Blomqvist
Latvala is maybe a bit of a special case because had a career so long his points maybe are a bit inflated. Still, remember he was the youngest winner at his time and for a while he was quite fast. In the end it's a data driven thing, that's the limit of the system.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
It also doesn't take into account "potential". For example we all imagine Kalle will go on to win many rallies and titles but imagine if Kalle never wins a rally again and Evans and Tanak dominate him for the next 5 years, he starts to crash etc do you still think he is so good as you do now?
Kudos to Antti for putting in the work.
To each their ownQuote:
Originally Posted by seb_sh
IMO it’s more difficult to win a championship than to win a rally.
If Kalle wouldn’t win a single rally or championship again (which will never happen) then I would still rate him higher than Latvala.
10 rallies, not just one. And usually winning a title also involves winning some rallies...Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
This is the same as with Henri Toivonen who had a relatively short career. People say he would have been a champion, but it's just would. Same with Kalle, people say he will be a 9 time world champion if he just continues as long, but if he quits earlier, it's a big would. The stats don't understand this word :)Quote:
If Kalle wouldn’t win a single rally or championship again (which will never happen) then I would still rate him higher than Latvala.
Thanks for using "for my taste" and "for me". Everyone can make their own lists, but this one is mine :)Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
Good list, maybe not fully for "my" taste but it's much better and adequate than the Dirtfish one.
And also there's some metrics in it while maybe you (or we) can develop the logic behind it overall very good job!
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young Malcolm
https://twitter.com/MSportLtd/status...40602335379465
I have the data, we can tweak the parameters and see how the list changes. For example we can make EstWRC version with 10 000 points for a championship title so champions will be for sure at the front. I'll get back to that later when I have more time.Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
But happy new year everyone! :)
Here is the list with 10 000 for WRC title, 7500 for FIA Drivers cup and 2500 for winning title with another manufacturer
1 Loeb, Sebastien
2 Ogier, Sebastien
3 Kankkunen, Juha
4 Mäkinen, Tommi
5 Sainz, Carlos
6 Grönholm, Marcus
7 Röhrl, Walter
8 Biasion, Massimo
9 Auriol, Didier
10 McRae, Colin
11 Mikkola, Hannu
12 Solberg, Petter
13 Tänak, Ott
14 Waldegård, Björn
15 Blomqvist, Stig
16 Vatanen, Ari
17 Burns, Richard
18 Salonen, Timo
19 Alen, Markku
20 Rovanperä, Kalle
21 Munari, Sandro
22 Latvala, Jari-Matti
23 Hirvonen, Mikko
24 Neuville, Thierry
25 Sordo, Dani
26 Evans, Elfyn
27 Eriksson, Kenneth
28 Delecour, Francois
29 Märtin, Markko
30 Mikkelsen, Andreas
31 Gilles Panizzi
32 Darniche, Bernard
33 Nicolas, Jean-Pierre
34 Meeke, Kris
35 Therier, Jean-Luc
36 Mouton, Michele
37 Østberg, Mads
38 Rovanperä, Harri
39 Mehta, Shekhar
40 Toivonen, Henri
41 Ragnotti, Jean
42 Mäkinen, Timo
43 Eklund, Per
44 Ericsson, Mikael
45 Duval, Francois
46 Schwarz, Armin
47 Andruet, Jean-Claude
48 Lappi, Esapekka
49 Paddon, Hayden
50 Saby, Bruno
You can't please em' all ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Happy new year everybody!
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So, no Greensmith and Serderidis, dissappointed lolQuote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
PS! I tend to like the original list better (read: Sainz vs Mäkinen...)
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I'm not sure it's much better than the Dirtfish one.....seems a bit of flawed data.Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
In which way?Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
Have a nice new year guys!!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FlTT-l0W...jpg&name=small
Happy New Year!!! May it be as competitive as we hope and we'll get to see some (more) rallies!!
We can argue until the cows come home about the rest but can anyone honestly disagree with at least the top four here? I’m pretty sure the top three is how I voted in the Dirt Fish pollQuote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
In my original list Sainz was fourth, and I think he deserves to be ahead of Mäkinen although the title numbers suggest otherwise. Remember RAC 1998, had things gone a bit differently, titles could be 3-3 between the two, and in that case Sainz would be clearly better in terms of other achievements.Quote:
Originally Posted by HKSjbg
Exactly! In my eyes it's 3-3 between Sainz & Mäkinen.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Careerwise Sainz did more.
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It's much better and adequate.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
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.... and Makinen would't slide on an oil spill we would still be champion ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Mäkinen did the mistake, Sainz didn'tQuote:
Originally Posted by ictus
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I agree, the top 5 is not in dispute really. I suppose you could say that Kankkunen is an odd one because he never won on tarmac, so all his success came from loose surface rallies.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
I would say both suffered bad luck. It's a part of motorsport, as are technical problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
And Sainz never won on snow. And Mäkinen never on mixed surface.Quote:
Originally Posted by doubled1978
Is there gonna be official launch of the 2023 WRC cars and drivers like it was almost a year ago in Austria?
No launch like last year in Salzburg, it will be official presentation of rally1 teams in Monte Carlo on wednesday 18.1. - but smaller scale.Quote:
Originally Posted by Managarium