It's no bluff... M-Sport NEED a sponsor.
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It's no bluff... M-Sport NEED a sponsor.
Monster, Martini, Castrol, even Redbull, Rockstar, Abu Dhabi, Qatar... Where are everyone now.
Not the best time from M-Sport. I guess last few years the massive R5 sales and service/parts made up a lot. Now that seems to be falling back, at the time they need to invest money on developing a new (proper) R5 car to secure their future.
There are no top drivers in msprt , no sponsor will just throw money at them , they want something im returnQuote:
Originally Posted by deephouse
Yep, imo Wilsons tactic of getting drivers that pay only goes so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by able1
He should have gotten himself one known good driver (that can get podiums) to have something to show sponsors. Preferably also one with good marketing potential.
Slme examples that were available this year: Latvala, Lappi, Paddon and Østberg. A bit too late now imo.
Paddon and Ostberg are still available. And I think he already has a driver that could get some podiums next year, a Finnish one. ;)
WRC needs M-Sport more than M-Sport WRC. He got his titles, paying himself for the last or at best case scenario, 3. place in the manuf. championship, isn`t really appealing, after the previous two years, or is it?
Yes but it's quite late to start getting sponsors on Paddon or Østberg now.Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
Suninen is not (yet) a known good driver that will attract sponsors. It's early and he is learning but on some rallies this year he was last by quite some margin.
@Tarmoo, Msport without WRC will have to fire quite a lot of people that now work on WRC cars and write off a lot of sunken costs in the cars.
you really believe that this business cant afford wrc entry?Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
It's not about being able to afford it. It's the question if the investment is still reasonable regarding the return. With the previous generation of WRC-cars, the works cars were some sort of advertising for the sales and running of the private WRC-cars. And there were quite a few of them. Nowadays being there with a WRC team doesn't lead to selling or renting out any other WRC-cars. Maybe it's better for his business to focus on R5 and R2.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Anyway with current WRC I think history will repeat itself, costs will get out of hand and manufacturers will eventually pull out. It's not a real question if it will happen, but when...
If he has to choose I think he will decide for developing R5 Evo 3 like tommeke_B says.
New R5. Not evo.
now you are talking.Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
The problem isnt that he cant afford,but he dont want to entry wrc because the return isnt same like previous years.
Of course Malcolm forgot to tell us that incomes from 250 cars r5, maybe are x 10 x 20 x30 ? times bigger than customers wrc entries from previous years.
ps at his position i would do/talk the same.
If the figures being discussed somewhere on this forum are to be believed (circa 70m euro for Hyundai and Toyota) then I think it's going that way. WRC is pretty strong now compared to how it was just a few years ago but I'm not sure it can be worth THAT much to a manufacturer. Here in the UK, publicity surrounding WRC is still pretty minimal, I don't know how it is in other countries?Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
And there are not that many "real" sponsors involved with the teams. Toyota has an impressive roster, other than that it's just Red Bull and a few automotive industry related suppliers.
Even when he had Ogier on board probably Redbull didn't pay for the whole operation. Especially in 2017.
The cost of the '17 WRCar's is a big issue. Even Citroen cant afford to run 3 cars without another sponsor.
Here's Ford Europe Gerrard Quinn on the M-Sport Ford situation:
"Cost was always going to be an issue with the modern WRC cars - the spectacle is great but when the cost is €300K to €400K more than the outgoing WRC car then it will become difficult to sustain particularly when cars are exclusive to WRC only."
100% Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Sorry but it works the other way round - the Team needs the money first before they can afford sign a driver.Quote:
Originally Posted by able1
Wilson had to put up his own money to sign Ogier, Red Bull came in after.
Having 4 manus is important for the series; no idea if they’re doing it, but it’d be in the WRC promoter interest to help Wilson finding new sponsors or even asking their parent company (Red Bull) to keep providing MSport some support (sponsoring 2 teams wouldn’t be a problem, they do the same in F1).
This said and considering Ford rally heritage, besides MSport current success, it’s a shame not seeing Ford properly investing in the WRC.
Gerrard Quinn on doubts about Ford funding:
"It's already done, contracts in place, funding ($$'s), resources, tech support etc. It is likely to be other contributing partners whose negotiations are being finalised. I am sure that our partners MSport will reveal this in good time. In the meantime our focus is 2019 testing..."
Looks like you just cotradicted yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
First they used (own) money to get a top driver (Ogier) which then got sponsors interested. Just like able1 and others said.
Now they are trying to do it the other way (first part of your post) and so far it doesn't seem to work.
Vicious circle .. without money you can't have top driver, without top driver you can't find sponsors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
They had to use Wilson's own money to get Ogier. He cant afford to do that again in case no sponsor comes.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
He needs a sponsors money first..
Yes . But at least there is hope. Wilson is a very smart businessman , he would not ask for extension without a possible sponsor in sight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
what changed from the last 15 years?Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Mail
they were present non stop at wrc level,and the company growed very much through this situation.
Has it even been confirmed they are moving to Citroen as a team sponsor? Maybe just continuing as a personal sponsor of Ogier?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
[QUOTE=Fast Eddie WRC;1202656]The cost of the '17 WRCar's is a big issue. Even Citroen cant afford to run 3 cars without another sponsor.
But you said there was no financial difference between what Redbull and Abu-Dhabi bring Citroen didn't you? Or have you changed your mind now?
Everything should be solved if FIA doesn´t need champagne and caviar for every breakfast.
[QUOTE=T16;1202674]Mis-interpreting yet again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
I said I based this on M-Sport being able to run 3 cars in 2018 with Red Bull.
Citroen simply cant pay the difference, unlike Mr Wilson.
[QUOTE=Fast Eddie WRC;1202722]Quote:
Originally Posted by T16
I think it was M-Sport the company that funded Ogier, not Mr Wilson.
[QUOTE=T16;1202723]Wilson admitted several occasions that he used his own money to subsidize Ogier wageQuote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
[QUOTE=Fast Eddie WRC;1202722]Sure they can but they are cheap in compare of him. With recently PSA buying Opel, Peugeot pulling out of Dakar & World RX they have budget, I'm sure. But they won't.. It's been disscused several times already. Abu Dhabi pulling the strings and they blame them that they don't have the money. Complete bullshit. Except if Ogier demand so much paying for him to come to the team that they really don't have any other money left. Then he is one hell of negotiator. Lappi I think is not that much payed. Especially because he come from two strongs teams and now to the completely strange one.Quote:
Originally Posted by T16
[QUOTE=able1;1202727]It was from the M-Sport reserves, not his own pocket.Quote:
Originally Posted by T16
[QUOTE=T16;1202734]Or it was Ogier demanding too much for his spoiled assQuote:
Originally Posted by able1
[QUOTE=deephouse;1202736]Which ass? The one that has just won two championships with the most under-funded team from them all? Worth every penny they paid him.Quote:
Originally Posted by T16
Still no one else wanted him in these two years. With M-Sport uncertain participation now it's clear he left the team because he want to stay in WRC or he would need to drive for a less than he make in these two years, so maybe that's the reason he is gone despite loving Malcolm and the team. I bet he wanted to be in Hyundai in 2017 and in 2018 in Toyota. And in both cases they don't wanted him. And in 2019 too, so he ended in Shitroen (like some call them like that).
[QUOTE=deephouse;1202739]Still no one else wanted him in these two years.
Didn’t he have offers from Toyota and Citroen for 2017?
Josh Moffett having fun with Fiesta WRC
https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...0c&oe=5CD8AF6A
What was this arranged for?Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira
The Moffett's have put a lot of money M-Sport's way over the past few years, maybe just a free gift ride...Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL