it was Peugeots 206 that didn't managed to start at frozen Monte morning, due to mapping error.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
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it was Peugeots 206 that didn't managed to start at frozen Monte morning, due to mapping error.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Just like VW. The point is that VW and Toyota are very much the same kind of animal on the car market. They are the two biggest giants in the arena and they have huge money available for achieving a real success. Nobody should expect anything else from them. They are not some underdogs but gigantic and rich corporations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
The story with VW showed to everybody that it is possible to come and destroy all the experienced and established teams if the team management is doing its work properly and can use the funding it has. Why shall anyone expect something else from Toyota?
Thanks, so it was similar with Škoda few years earlier :)Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
didn't remember that! when?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
The very first start of Octavia WRC on Monte 99. Schwarz and Sibera both retired before SS1 due to technical problems in the cold weather.
I agree with you. VW set new standards in WRC. They’ve spent millions creating a fabulous in house team that no one could compete. But now they´re leaving and besides their dominant mark and the broken records in what way can we say they’ve help to develop the sport?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Probably in no other way: one can still remember them pushing the promoter to adopt new rules totally disrespectful to WRC heritage and showing no interest about privateer teams and drivers needs, in international or national rally series; their only target was to become a steamroll in WRC.
Should we desire a similar attitude from Toyota? I don’t. Despite all the troubles and misfortunes they can came by choosing a private partner, I really hope Toyota and TMR will be a top contender in WRC and, specially, will be able to provide a wide range of rally cars to private customers around the world, making a serious contribution to the sport development. Just like Ford and MSport have been doing for a long time.
Skoda at Monte '99 debut, Peugeot at Monte '00 (first Monte for the 206, not debut of the car)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Toyota's F1 program comes to mind. Their motorsports efforts have had plenty of money but not much success since the 90s. Sure it could be successful, and VW shows it can be done. Against that is Toyota's track record (or lack thereof). ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Obviously Ogier thinks the Fiesta 2017 wrc is better than the Toyota wrc at the moment.
Or maybe suits his driving style betterQuote:
Originally Posted by Zeakiwi
We don´t know what his assessments were at that time. It´s about more than handling of the car.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeakiwi
Yes, VW used its power to make the WRC friendly for itself and while we may not like it it's another achievement it managed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
My point was that Toyota's effort shall and will be compared with VW because Toyota is in very similar position like VW.
While it's true that Mäkinen built a whole new team and the car in very short time it's not something what Toyota shall be proud of or any sort of excuse. Toyota has enough resources, had enough time (they started the WRC project long before it was given to Mäkinen) and must have only winning ambitions as anything else makes no sense.
Toyota Europe Verified account
@toyota_europe
The #YarisWRC will have a direct impact on expanding the Yaris line-up with a performance-oriented version.
Expanding in Finland? Cause all the drivers are Finnish. Just marketing wise it would be nice to have some national variety ;)
BTW has anyone seen a standing start of that beauty? Till now, I haven't noticed it. What are they hiding?
Nope, Toyota will be compared to Hyundai, Citroen or Ford, their future competitors, not with VW or any other past WRC manu.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Completely off topic but...Quote:
Originally Posted by rp
This reminds me of the best piece of finnish english ever.
Latvala leaned too much on the snowbank in sweden 2015 and went through it... it took the the fans about 8 minutes to get him back up on the road and when, at the stop control, asked why he was late, he replied
"I came too fast in the corner and I ended up in some big tits" (ditch)
I do. I was there and I was even staying in the same place as the some of the Hyundai team. Not so happy faces ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by pantealex
Anyway, regarding Toyota... they are treating this as a learning year. Like the approach or not (after all most winning cars came out ready from the very beginning) but it is the path they chose. The future will tell the rest!
Also, let's remember that TMG, previously TTE was started by one guy in his workshop in a half amateur way.
I am not defending Tommi... I too find it a strange way of achieving success and I have raised my eyebrows more than once. On the other hand I am not going to say anything definitive until this venture has had time to set out what it meant to do (which from the very start was said to be a multi year program).
Yes, Toyota can be compared to VW on car market, but what makes you think Toyota gives this program same amount of money as VW did?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
For me it looks more like a venture from Toyota, it seems they give some (just enough) money for private team to do the job and then they will see how it goes. If all goes well - they'll continue, if not (or something else changes) - they can stop easily.
Look at VW - huge amount of money, facilities etc etc etc... and boom it's over. Toyota's approach looks more cautious.
IMHO People from Toyota Japan would like to copy the VW project, make it very professional, put enormous amount of money there and succeed from the very beginning, but they don´t have luck in choice of coworkers so it looks like few villagers from Finnish woods trying to build the WRC car in small garage. I would be happy if Tommi M. proves me wrong.
On the other hand I can see clearly there is enormous improvement in Yaris WRC speed during last weeks. The engine is very strong from the beginning and the suspension set-up is better and better everyday.
But that’s where he ended up in the end.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by itix
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Czj1-w0XAAAMYeW.jpg
RallySport Mag @RallySportMag
Jarmo Lehtinen told @RallyHolmes that @TGR_WRC has a 5-year commitment to @OfficialWRC. https://issuu.com/hi-techmedia/docs/...mber_2016/64*…
BILLIOT Jérémie @planetemarcus 5h
5 hours ago
BILLIOT Jérémie Retweeted RallySport Mag
#WRC JML & Hanninen deal one year with option for Toyota
lolQuote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
I have never said Toyota put same money into WRC as VW did. I said Toyota had enough resources to do so. What I wanted to say is that there was no sense at all to play with brand reputation by running half-way projects.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcco
I certainly hope they are competitive but I don't agree at all with inventing excuses already before first event.
Happy end!Quote:
Originally Posted by OldF
No one was inventing excuses mate. Just reporting facts to make clear that most of the criticism is unfair.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Btw, having Toyota LM/WEC budget in mind (different sources mention 50% less than Audi), Marcco point makes a lot of sense. We've also to remember that Toyota is involved in much more motorsport programes than VW (Asia, USA, South Africa,...). Spending a bit less on each one but keeping all of them running seems to be a valid option.
The sport is about competition and marketing. From sporting point of view the target of every top sportsman is to be the best. From marketing point of view the target is to present the brand as the best, i.e. both points of view share the same goal. IMHO for such a company like Toyota the only sensible way is to commit fully or not at all. Anything half way is pure waste of money for own damage.
Its funny now the only non-manufacturer could be 'the best'.
I don't think it's right to insinuate that Toyota aren't fully committed, I mean they've wasted a lot of resources that TMG used by testing a Yaris for 2-3yrs - only to abandon. Plus they offered Ogier 10-12m a year to drive for them, so they are serious. It just seems that Akia Toyoda has maybe gambled and put a hell of a lot faith in Makinen. They've clearly become good friends over the last few years.
But then again, it's great that a major boss at a company like Toyota is so enthusiastic about the WRC. They'll make/ have made mistakes but it won't be because they aren't passionate about the sport - like BMW were when they left Prodrive hanging...
Hopefully it works out well for the team and the WRC, but it's understandable that everyone has some doubts...
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Rally simulators on the left, pirated versions of Windows on the right :D
Latest Toyota update from Martin Holmes:
31-year old Jari-Matti Latvala arrived at the Toyota Yazoo Racing WRC team launch in his home country of Finland straight from testing in the south of France, full of enthusiasm for the latest step in his career.
http://www.rallysportmag.com.au/home...yaris-2017-wrc
UPDATED: Toyota Gazoo Racing Engineer Tom Fowler chats to Martin Holmes about the development of the 2017 Yaris WRC.
Read the full article in the December issue of the RallySport Magazine.
https://issuu.com/hi-techmedia/docs/...cember_2016/66
Please tell me this clip is on youtube!Quote:
Originally Posted by itix
Why don't they hire him at toyota?! Makinen and he would be ideal pair... :D
http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127528
I hope he didn't tell the people at McLaren the great idea he has to spice up the racing by doing a force restart 3 laps before the race end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barreis
Dunno. I don't have good Internet where I am so I can't check for you unfortunately.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack4688`
For me it will be interesting to see how big the time difference btw the two Yaris cars will be in MC and Sweden. If too big maybe they see they need a better number two.
They can first give the second car to Lappi, if that is the case...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Toyota have some FIA limitation to test homologated car? They are testing the old shape car....