Still Reiger (for the moment), but way better than current ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by AMSS
Printable View
Still Reiger (for the moment), but way better than current ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by AMSS
Different car chassis behave differently to different dumpers...Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Just curious, what's different?Quote:
Originally Posted by br21
..And can you say how much damper travel for gravel the units have?
Asking for a friend.
I don't know the figure for Fiesta but officially it's 275 mm for Polo R5. I assume it is similar.Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
current spec:Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
front has 248mm of stroke before rubber bumpstop engaged
rear has 275mm in the same conditions.
Motion ratio is 1,1 so you can calculate wheels stroke
more news about c3 suspension
https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/1...nsion-overhaul
Colin Clark's new vlog suggests a third car is possible for Citroen if they find themselves in a good position in the Manus ch'ship.
And Breen is keeping match-fit with Irish and Italian events...
Oh yes, the kitchen table...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
1. It's just his pure speculation. While not impossible it will likely need extra funding, cause Ogier will not want to move any development money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
2. Østberg has been faster and a more reliable point scorer for Citroen in 2nd half of 2018 and he still works for them. So he is likely first pick for gravel.
Clark says Citroen actually covet the Manus ch'ship more than the Driver's... and it wouldnt cost that much more to run a 3rd car.
I think its entirely possible a 3rd car for the second half of 2019.
Clearly that's not true, use your head. If that was true they'd start the season with 3 cars - but they've made it clear Ogier and the drivers title is what they want!Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
If they can win the manufacturers as well, ofcourse they'll look at ways to do it with Breen or Ostberg later in the year. This isn't the same Citroen as 2003.
Colin may think so but Pierre Budar has said drivers titles are their target of the seasonQuote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Drivers title may have been the priority at the start as they wanted to save money.
But that can change if they see a chance of the Manus. It is obviously more valuable for them to win as a team.
We shall see.
Why? Since when do the public recognize more the team title than the driver's title? I'd say nearly everyone following any motorsport at least a bit knows the name of the WDC but only the hard fans know who was the WMC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
It doesn't matter, who remembers the WDC or WMC, its the money what matters.. and manus title is where the team gets the most money
The most important (by faaaaaar) is the marketing value of the title, i.e. its public recognition.
That's the case in Formula 1 certainly, but... Do the WRC manufactures even get any money from WRC Promoter for winning the WRC Manufactures title? I've never heard it talked about in relation to the WRC.Quote:
Originally Posted by TypeR
So why are Hyundai so desperate to win the Manufacturer's title ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
They have been around for quite some time and haven't won any title. And they badly need to win anything. The manufacturing title looks to be the easier goal because they don't actually need to defeat Ogier and Tänak to achieve it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
They even brought in Loeb and have switched driver's around for the best combination on each rally. It matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
How about to read what I wrote before you quote it?
Well, Mirek just said, why it matters to them, who don`t start a season with a two car team, one driven by a reigning 6x WDC. It is simply the second best thing, when the first one can`t be achieved. To be fair, Loeb was brought in to grab points from Tänak/ Ogier...like M-Sport and Toyota drivers helped/help their lead drivers and so help Neuville with his WDC.
Manufacturers title is for Manufacturers so therefore of course it means something to them.
Hyundai have always been after it and now they are desperate for it.
Citroen will want to win it too and I think will adapt to 3 cars if they see thay are in the fight.
Of course it means something. Nobody ever claimed otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
The thing is that you claimed it was more valuable than the driver's championship and that's not true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Why not to accept that both titles are equally important? Manus rally involvement is due to brand awareness among the general public, not among motorsport fans. Average Joe only remotely knows what Rally is and can hardly remember one driver name.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
What mostly matters to the manus is to show that they’re able to be successfull on this tought sport in order to provide better products to Joe; eventually any WRC title will serve to underline that success.
If this year the manufacturers was just as important or even more important, they would be running 3 cars and the team principal wouldn't have said they are focusing on the drivers title for Ogier. It's really quite simple!!!!!!! Jeeeez...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
And that doesn't mean the manufacturers won't become an important target if it's winnable with an additional car, but it's clearly not the priority now or at the start of the season.
Don't even know why it's such a debate, when it's Eddie just not engaging his brain again...
It’s really quite simple, either: at some point the debate was no longer just about Citroen (or Hyundai) current situation but on the general value of drivers vs manus title.Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
Back to the thread; some curious info about Lappi and Ogier on Citroen media site: https://media.citroenracing.com/en/t...C3%ABn-secrets
Thing is, if a manufacturer wins the world manufacturers title, they can plaster it on every car advert in the press. A bit like Lancia used to have a wreath with every year they had won the wmc at the bottom of their adverts, albeit years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
Of course, they can put the name and face of the wrc driver champion on their ads, but as Rally power says, it isn't going to mean much to the average Joe.
I think it’s got to the point where the drivers title is important to the drivers themselves and to the fans, but the manufacturers can probably get a bit more mileage out of the manufacturer’s championship, in terms of marketing....but only in some countries. i.e. Ogier winning is a massive deal in France (to the general public), but not the UK, but Citroen may get more out of marketing that they are WMCs to the general UK public than if Ogier wins a title.
I think this is an evolving change we are seeing and it certainly contrasts the worth of a Driver’s championship back in the days of McRae etc.
I guess either way though, a manufacturer still gets to claim ‘we are world rally champions’ whether they have won a WDC or a WMC.... and that’s probably good for manufacturer involvement as two teams can potentily get bragging rights.
Usual bullshit from Er88 when its a perfectly debatable subject and a reason why Citroen could soon employ a 3rd car (and out of work driver).Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
It's still only your fantasy that Citroen would add a third car, and another fantasy that the driver would be Breen. They would for sure rather use Østberg who's doing testing work for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Whatever, you started this by claiming after listening to Clark that Citroen covet the manufacturers more than the drivers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
People have just told you that's not true, and why. Even using evidence such as what Pierre Budar has told you about where their priorities lie. Even if he didn't explicitly say it, you'd just have to look at the team line-up and number of cars to realise that...
Again, nobody has said they wouldn't add a third car later in the year if the chance is there to win the manufacturers, but it still won't be their priority and it's still not something on their agenda.
Especially if they decide to add a third car on the second half... Gravel. Breen was 7th in Germany last year about 30 secs behind Andreas M. I think Mads would easily be choice even if he was not doing any testing with the team. Breens only chance may be with M-Sport...Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Citroen is the only team to be on the podium every rally this year – always first or second. In 2017 they managed only three podiums and five in 2018.
And 4 rallies gone and Citroen still 2nd in the Championship.
Well yes but after this performance they will surely use any extra funds to also work on the tarmac car before Germany rather than on running a 3rd car.
Citroen is the only team to have Ogier this year ;) with all due respect to Lappi.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
But Lappi is the only "second" driver to be on the podium this year, if you consider Evans as M-Sport first driver.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli
4787/5000
Can we imagine seeing the new aero kit for the end of the year at least?
"At this point, I can not give you a date. According to the results that will be obtained in tests. In function, one will homologate or not. The aero is a particular area, because it is a long job and requires a lot of calculations and possibly the wind tunnel. You have to make drawings, molds, then pieces and try to make them fit so that everything works in all conditions. So it is something that is very expensive, in terms of time and approval also in number of jokers. It is an extremely sensitive subject so I do not want to give a specific date. We will not go if we are not convinced that this is not the right solution and that it is validated. "
Especially when Sebastien asks suspension evolutions, it can complicate this arrival of the aero?
"It's not antinomic. But if we also work on suspension jokers, we will not have them on the aero, so we will have to make choices. We work on several chapters and we have to work well to use the jokers available wisely. Finally, it is not easy to make a commitment on a date, and it does not bring us much. "
Now, go to South America. What is the test program?
"In Portugal, we have a pretty heavy program next week, and we will probably try the aero again. We will necessarily work on the Argentina / Chile duo with two days per driver. As there is a link between the two rallies, we must in particular renew the same dampers, we must have a setup almost identical between the two events.
The aero is predominant now and one wonders how much?
"We have seen the importance of the aero on these new cars, it is part of the big differences between the old and the new WRC. Obviously, the higher the speed of passage and the more important it is. We tried to evaluate in tests many times the importance of the Earo, and each time, it is very impacting on performance, both on land and asphalt. What is complicated on earth is that you have to manage to make the aero run with changes of attitude that are much more marked than on asphalt. On the asphalt, the car has a more constant attitude, and in the ground, it is necessary that the aero works when the car has tancage, when it sits or when it crashes, but also when it is skidding . So it's very complicated to have aero parts that go beyond a straight line, we often destroy the aero in these possibilities. The hard part is to make the parts work in all the attitudes of the car. It's specific to the rally. Obviously, they do extraordinary things in circuit but with cars still stuck to the ground. "
Does Citroën work in the wind tunnel?
"Of course, we did that especially in England. We have a wind tunnel in the Paris region but which is not very suitable. "
How many people work on the air just?
"It's hard to divide the staff like that. We have size means we will say but we can not do what we want either, we have financial limits like everyone, unfortunately and fortunately, because it avoids us to scatter on all topics without too much reflect.
Basically, on a WRC type program, we are about 110 people. "
Finally and finally, a question about Esapekka. Is his attitude, rather casual and uncomfortable, normal and not good for the image of Citroen? Can this work?
"First, I get to know Esapekka and Janne well, I know how they feel. I do not take it for spite, but at the same time, when you do not make a good time and that it does not go, his attitude seems normal to me. On a rally like this where he had performance problems and his teammate too, we quickly realized that it was a problem of settings on the car and he is very disappointed, because we were mistaken collectively, the pilots were also present during the tests. And he's part of the collective. It is his personality to express it like that, again, we can not expect him to be cheerful and enthusiastic at the arrival of special as in Corsica. I do not mind if it stays measured in what he says. I know it might be more exciting for you if he made thunderous statements but he really wants to convey his disappointment. This is the intention he wants to pass. He's also a laid-back boy, but in all his attitudes, even when he wins, it's the famous Finnish phlegm. "
https://www.rallye-sport.fr/budar-on...ctivement-2-2/
Lappi's car after Argentina
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5PlGChXkAIvcbF.jpg