*If* Lappi moves, then who goes to Toyota? Suninen?
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*If* Lappi moves, then who goes to Toyota? Suninen?
DMACK ran out of marketing money, sadly.Quote:
Originally Posted by racerx1979
Sordo, Paddon, Evans, Meeke, Tidemand, Katsuta, Rovanperra, Breen, Ogier... There is so much to choose from..Quote:
Originally Posted by tomhlord
I would remove Katsuta and Rovanperra from that list...Quote:
Originally Posted by deephouse
That's you, Toyota heads are different. Ours opinion really doesn0t count who they will choose.Quote:
Originally Posted by racerx1979
If it ain’t Ogier or Katsuta (gulp) , I don’t see Lappi going anywhereQuote:
Originally Posted by tomhlord
Even management has said that Lappi has offer from Toyota, so it´s 100% sure that nobody is replacing him...
He can stay if he wants.
But does he want ???
About those candidates:
Rovanperä has 2+1 deal with Skoda, so NO to Toyota
Katsuta NO, there are several drivers before him at line.
Tidemand, Toyota will not replace EVEN driver with EVEN driver
Sordo, not hungry enough
Meeke, one Latvala is enough, no need for 2nd
Ogier is not coming
Evans, I don´t think so.
Hänninen is not coming back
I would think Breen, Suninen and Paddon as TOP3 candidates
For Lappi it´s 50/50 staying/going, hard to say, no one knows.
Rovanperä they won’t get. Yet. He’s contracted to Skoda for 2019.Quote:
Originally Posted by deephouse
I recall that Toyota`s policy was also growing developing drivers. Not R5-style, what they are doing with Katsuta and were doing with Arai, but a bit experienced young drivers with big ambitions, so Lappi, Breen, Paddon, Suninen and maybe Tidemand would qualify.
Paddon for sure can`t allow another half season, if he hasn`t given up...which is not the case i believe and Sordo was also keen on doing full seasons again. So probably one of them will move.
I don't know but I'd assume that EVEN are shopping Lappi around a bit to get him a better deal from Toyota. Classic negotiation tactics, especially if they know Toyota want him to stay. So often in other sports you see people linked with another team right before they sign a new deal and stay put.
Sad, but maybe another brand will want to give it a go. Even a season in Wrc2 to gain experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomhlord
Hankook, Conti, Kuhmo, Maxxis, Zestino, Yokohama, MRF or maybe Dunlop?
It is a steep learning curve, but development departmemt will also learn a lot that can be transferred to road tyres!!
I have little doubt he can be a future champion but some seem too keen to rush him, he’s still a boy and hasn’t won a WRC2 event yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Patience.
Exactly. And he hasn't competed in many of the WRC events yet. A couple of years in WRC2 would be good. He would still be younger than any else WRC factory driver.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS
The thing with young drivers from my view.
Money/sponsors and some talent takes you to the level where Rovanpera is atm quite fast (off course provided there is some talent in the first place). Getting from this level (~national rally champion) to the next level (can get top 3 in wrc) is harder, getting to win WRC rallies is even harder than that and championship is another level entirely.
Take for example Matt Wilson - never got past the first level, even though he looked almost as promising as Rovanpera early on. Likewise you could take Latvala and Mikkelsen who also had similar starts and now are "stuck" on the next best level for 2-4 years.
Which is why I react to people calling "young" drivers future champions. (Lappi, Rovanpera, Huttunen etc.)
I wasn't following rallying actively when Wilson was driving, but looking at his results, it seems he only drove British events before stepping up into full WRC Seasons, without any knowledge of the events or road types of different countries. His best result ever was fourth on his second full season. But maybe British media hyped him similarly as Rovanperä now?Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Yes, and as you can see you have people suggesting on this forum how Rovanpera should drive WRC in 2019.
What were they smoking on the show? 30-40M for the full extent of a 3 or 4 years contract (10M year) can make sense, but per year it's nuts, to Citroen or any other manu.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnybobiche
Once again your comments are so fickle. A driver has a few average rallies and they are has-beens in your eyes. I remember your comments that Loeb and Ogier were the only two real drivers, the rest being second-rate.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Do I remember you saying a season or two ago that Neuville was done, not fast enough and never will be. Do I remember you saying Tommi's Toyota team was a bunch of village idiots that won't achieve anything.
You are so quick to jump to conclusions you can't be taken seriously.
20000 comments in 18 years...that's a lot of diatribe. Could you go to the badminton or skipping rope forums. They make like you.
That's quite an unequal bunch of drivers you're comparing there. Like most sports, also rallying is "game of levels" as they say. IMO all the current factory drivers are of the most supreme class. Sure, then there's Neuville, Tänak and Ogier who all are just that tiny bit above everyone else - which makes them the top 3 in the championship - but I'd find it a bit odd to call that different level altogether (referreing to your view on Latvala and Mikkelsen). Lappi, as a WRC rally winner, has nothing to do with either Rovanperä or Huttunen, who haven't even competed at the level Lappi's been for the past two seasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
I'd also say that Matt Wilson is a poor example in that context, as he never showed speed at any level where it would truly have mattered, unlike Rovanperä for example, who we can already judge vs. proven drivers like Tidemand (hence vs. Lappi and others too). That ofcourse isn't serving as any guarantee that Rovanperä will ever win a WRC event, but we can already be sure he's got the tools to make it to the very top.
You might not know but there is handy little setting that will magically turn all of N.O.T's messages to this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Maui J.
This message is hidden because N.O.T is on your ignore list.
I heartily recommend it, saves one a lot in the headache medication costs.
The thing all those drivers have in common is that they were all declared "future champions". It's the last bit (going from multiple rally winner to a champion) which is hardest imo, logarithmic progression. Neuville and Tanak have not made the step yet either, since they obviously are not champions. Nowhere did I wrote that Latvala and Mikkelsen are level below them overall.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allez Andruet
Lappi still has to make the step from single rally winner (like for example Sordo, Østberg and Evans) to multiple rally winner. Interestingly this season he has not led for a single stage. I am not saying he is doing bad (look at Ogier's first full WRC seasons), just that he is not going to be a champion just yet ;)
I think from these MRF are considering joining for 2019 and Kumho, Hankook and Yokohama already have quit good tires in their portfolio, also Maxxis and Zestino has tires in their portfolio but don`t know anything about their quality. Dunlop to my knowledge does not produce gravel tires anymoreQuote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
It's happening... https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/...-2019/3178947/
Of course it's just a David Evans article. 12 months ago he wrote that Tänak is set to remain at M-Sport. But this year, I believe Ogier goes to Citroen.
However, it will be interesting to see if Red Bull would follow Ogier to Citroen and would Abu Dhabi then be off Citroen, maybe back to M-Sport?
Maybe, I don't remember if it was here on the forum that someone said Ogier's deal would be revealed this weekend.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Anyhow, should be interesting to watch, a couple of interesting months ahead of us.
After Ford coming back to support M-Sport which is what Ogier wanted he looks like jumping ship to Citroen. Disappointing.
Does that mean Ford will reduce their support once more?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Define support. Ogier probably wanted technical and £$£$£$£ - that obviously hasn't happened. So he's off....(if the rumours are true.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Yes, but Ogier is thinking that it´s not enough and of course Ford could put more resources.
We will see what will happen. If Ogier is going to Citroën surely Red Bull will follow him. Then Abu Dhabi could be back with M-Sport, but I doubt that Ford is interested at all, because they would lost their leading driver and only Seb, Thierry and Ott are able to fight for the WRC title in 2019...
Lol, Ford's "support" this year says everything Ogier needs to know about their commitment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
They have one of the best drivers of all time and they've been pissing about with botched up aero jobs, massively delaying engine upgrades and can't even return as a full manufacturer. No wonder Seb is disappointed and is seemingly going to risk it at Citroen instead.
I still have trouble believing ogier would go to the worst team with the worst car when he has other options.
Unless they offer him a huge cheque.
Seb might do the same as Räikkönen. To stop his career there, where everything started. Citroën is willing to pay what Ogier wants and I doubt that Ford is ready to do the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
Ogier also has a right to be pissed about Ford's approach.
He talked for like 6 months about wanting to be in manufacturer team. Won drivers title and manu title for MSport and even then Ford didn't come in fully.
M-Sport needs money, not resources from Ford Performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by rp
People from Ford Performance are not competent enough for the task.
The Wilson familly knows where and how to spend de money developping the car and on schedule.
This is the part that people from Ford still didn't understand.
Ah, and Ford Motor Company is with financial troubles...
Eddie, do you really think ford have provided much support at all? Why is his decision disappointing? Sounds to me like Ford over promised and under delivered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
That car, with none of the top 3 drivers behind the wheel, which recently fought, briefly, but still, for rally Finland and Turkey wins, has been quick on tarmac and snow+ has a few victories vs Ford that had to use teammembers assistance once again to get P6? Sounds terrible yes, although more like it needs Ogier.Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
None of us know what happens behind the scenes, but Ford have provided more assistance than M-Sport had had since they pulled out.
Ogier jumping to a Citroen team which has been in dissaray, with a dodgy car, plus the dropping of Meeke, is a big gamble.
He could show a bit of patience and loyalty to M-Sport.
That would be nice, if so.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
If you listen to Ogier in post-stage interviews, my interpretation of certain paraphrases seems to follow these thoughts. "We now that [Hyundai & Neuville] on pure speed it's a challenge" at the end of Turkey poweratage. Or, words to that effect, apologies. To me, I interpreted that as the Hyundai car/team is quick as it's been developed further.Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
Then, in the David Evans article, the quote (verbatim) "I wanted to know more about the commitment [from the manufacturer] and we're getting that." Smells like Citroen to me, proving that this year they are almost saving the cash to really go for it and not quit.
Ogier is average for 2 years now... last year Neuville lost the championship Ogier did not win anything...Quote:
Originally Posted by Maui J.
A few years back Loeb and Ogier were the only drivers...
Tommis toyota is a village mess and is getting carried by tanak...
I never doubted neuvilles speed (maybe in the citroen days) i doubt his mentality...
shouldn't be bothered with NZ people but i like sheep...