Printable View
I saw that race , and that clumsy overtake move by that low-life cheater who ran into you was just too much to take , and he should have been sat out of the championship for at least four years .Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Ben
You had divine right to that corner , and his sandwich !
You turned left and then right into a right left chicane?Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Ben
Anyway, this was a left right chicane so we're talking about different events. And The same guy is my best friend still 20 years later. We were speaking about this incident only last night and comparing it to Nico & Lewis. I had forgotten about it until he reminded me. Thing is though, I was never a wuss so he always knew I would not give in unless I had no other choice.
Back to the story at hand, it shows you can judge these things. This with a 125 kart, but you always know if you are going to hit something or not. If Nico came out and admitted he made a mistake and was sorry straight after the race I'd have been more inclined to believe it was an accident but his attitude after the race and refusal to say sorry just adds weight to his guilt.
And I'm not sure why he feels aggrieved over Bahrain either, if that is the case, he was the one that used settings on his car that Mercedes said they couldn't to try and overtake Lewis.
Yeah, he is fast becoming the Eddie Irvine on the 21st century :shock:Quote:
Originally Posted by steveaki13
I've lost count of the number of incidents he's been involved in over the last few years.
You know, I've heard this applied to a lot of Germans!Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
Apparently Hamilton used the same setting to keep Nico behind at Spain, so that's a wash.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
If I remember correctly, Rosberg was all smiles after Baharain, and talking about how much fun it was and how he hoped the fans enjoyed it. It would seem hard to believe he holds any grudges from that.
I think at this point we have to wait and see what Nico does next time it is wheel to wheel with Hamilton.
When Senna swerved on Prost and almost put him into the pit wall in Portugal (89?), we were all shocked, but did not want to believe he would do anything like that again, which of course he did. After a few more of those, all doubt was removed that Senna intended to play fair.
The same thing with Schumacher taking Hill out at Adelaide in 94. There was a shred of doubt that maybe he did not do it on purpose, but then the chopping, blocking and swerving started, culminating in "deliberate, but instinctual" at Jerez in '97 when he tried to take out Villeneuve. After that, there was no giving the guy the benefit of the doubt.
With Nico, maybe his Monoco gaffe was for real. Maybe he really did not mean to hit Lewis at Spa, though he admitted he did not try to miss him either. To me, one of those is as good as the other, but I think we can now sit back and see what he does next. If Nico can race clean, maybe he was innocent of all these things, but if he does it again, I don't believe he deserves any more benefit of the doubt.
Hey I know that.Quote:
Originally Posted by journeyman racer
Plenty though of "Casual fans" will think this a dull season, given the Mercedes dominance generally if the title is sewn up 4 rounds before the end.
Yeah, sure. Why not? There's plenty of supernatural stuff I could do in my imaginary memoriesQuote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
Well yeah, so They are both guilty of that! I do know Nico said Hamilton pushed his luck in one incident after Bahrain - but that overall he was happy with the race. I honestly think people are making too much out of Bahrain. This incident I don't believe started there. It started after Hammy won 4 in a row. When Nico realized he couldn't beat Hamilton in out and out pace. Strange how that mistake came at just te right time for him eh? Tbh, both incidents are pretty clear to me. Up until Monaco I really didn't care which guy won the championship. It's very clear that Rosberg did that on purpose so to me, after that, I'm in Hamilton's corner. I don't want a cheat as a WDC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Austin
No one is arguing against that. Only one car can be in the same place. But if an accident does happen, the car behind may have to eat the blame as the car in front should have the right to the corner. If the car from behind plows into it, the car behind may be penalized. Perhaps Rosberg should have been penalized. Who knows what logic F1 used there. Perhaps considering that the cars barely clipped, the FIA officials decided that Rosberg made a small mistake (but with big consequences).Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Austin
That's right. If there was someone responsible for the collision, it was Rosberg. However, that doesn't prove the malicious intent to plow into Hamilton.Quote:
I would say the front wing contacting rear wheel would be significantly more behind than half a length. By your own reasoning, it was Hamilton's corner.
Rosberg simply misjudged how far ahead his front wing was. A couple of inches of space may have allowed him to clear Hamilton's wheels without contact.Quote:
By turning the wheel towards Hamilton?Oddly, my instinct would be to avoid the collision.
Please do not use third party quotes as the proof of what Rosberg said privately, specially from Hamilton who is not an impartial party.
And by the way, Alain Prost in an interview to f1news.ru states his personal opinion on the incident, making all the same points I have been mentioning. Summary:
1. This was a racing incident
2. Every weekend we see similar incidents
3. Rosberg turned towards Hamilton's car to stay on track
4. The driver does not see the big front wing from the cockpit well
5. Rosberg misjudged the situation when he turned his car towards Hamilton's car.
6. Rosberg was just as likely to cause serious damage to his own car as he could lose his wing, puncture tire, etc.
If you don't believe, run this through a translator:
http://www.f1news.ru/interview/prost/97165.shtml
If you click on the quote, it will take you to the article that contains the quote. That is a direct copy/paste of text from the article.Quote:
Originally Posted by zako85
Here is the direct link
I was just quoting the article on Motorsports.com, which I believe is probably a credible source.
From there people can make up their minds if the article and the quote have any credibility or not. Perhaps it is done differently here, but this is a perfectly acceptable literary technique at the forum I posted at before coming here. There when we made claims, we were expected to provide links that prove our position, and that's what I did.
The exact title of the article is "Rosberg admits he deliberately hit Hamilton to 'prove a point' - Mercedes confirms" So, if Mercedes is confirming this, either it is true or Motorsports,com all of it wrong got it wrong. The article is still there, so I'm guessing that Motorsports.com probably stands by it.
Why did Nico choose the words he did ?
If we take Hamilton's version , as confirmed by the team as correct , "I could have avoided it." , we also need to note that it mentions that Rosberg put the blame on Hamilton first off .
Nico is saying he set up for the corner , and Hamilton never intended to allow for this possibility .
He was not backing out , and the stewards must have agreed that he had the right to do what he did .
The team also said that it was rubbish that Nico deliberately took Lewis off .
Some here are forgetting that important piece of info .
Merc are quite right to be angry at Nico .
He did "prove a point" with what he did .
But , perhaps he might have done it in a less aggravating way , like talking about it in a team meeting .
Oh , that's right , Lewis said they had had a meeting before the race where Nico came in all angry about the last race , and Lewis dismissed the ire , saying he couldn't believe Nico was still on about all that stuff in the past .
There are two drivers involved here , and both were deemed at fault .
I laugh at some people here and how they somehow feel an incident that happened 4 weeks previous, of which Nico The Cheat had no right to feel aggrieved by anyway, is somehow used as a justification for another incident 4 weeks later. If Nico the Cheat was fuming about Hungary 4 weeks later after looking back at the race and listening to the radio excerpts then he really is a tool. Lewis did the right thing, as confirmed by the team and anyone that isn't trying to make the whole story into a sensation, by saying he'd allow him through but he had to get close enough. Lewis was fighting Alonso and Ricciardo, he couldn't afford to lose 1.5 seconds while waiting for Nico the Cheat to pass and Nico the Cheat simply wasn't able to close the gap. It's as straight forward and down the line as it gets and I personally feel Lewis acted appropriately as do the rest of the Mercedes management and F1 world.
Fast forward 4 weeks, if after looking at the footage he still felt aggrieved and had been stewing on it then he really is an awful tool. It's not Lewis's role to go over to Nico the Cheat and pat him on the back and say "Do you feel aggrieved my dear German schmuck? Oh you poor little thing. Let me get a fresh nappy and Kleenex for you". It's up to Nico the Cheat to cry a river, build a bridge and get the fuck over it. Be a man, just like Lewis has done with this by saying he will not retaliate on Nico the Cheat.
If he really does win this WDC it really will be the most deserving title in many, many years considering all the obstacles he's had to come through. All he has to do is have the points gap less than 13 in Abu Dhabi. Given his amazing ability around AD I have no doubt he'll take the title there should Nico the Cheat still be leading and send that spoiled little German back home to Monaco to cry about it to Keke.
Well said ! With the facts too
Nico never got over Hungary ,he was not near enough by a country mile to expect Lewis to slow and let him pass ! He moaned"Why is he not letting me pass" You thick tool,You were at NO time near enough to try a pass ! If it has been on his mind for the last 4 weeks ,then he is a spoilt brat !!!
He was seething at Spa that he was SO slow away ,and was overtaken by TWO cars ,the horns were protruding through his helmet and the "Red Mist" appeared ,he knew as sure as shit is shit ,there was NO way past Lewis if he got away and 4 seconds in front,so he took him out !! He cheated at Monaco,we all know that now ,and gets away with it ,then cheats in Spa and gets away with it again .Can i please borrow his Rosary Beads Rosberg ,as some body .,besides Mercedes is on his shoulder !! But then again a famous Brazilian (Bless Him ) ,thought HE had the lord on his shoulder too
So, as predicted, Nico the Cheat gets away with it:
http://en.espnf1.com/mercedes/motors...ry/173017.html
Issues empty apology that means nothing:
http://en.espnf1.com/mercedes/motors...ry/173031.html
It's not Rosberg that needs the fresh nappy and Kleenex. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
Hahaha ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by journeyman racer
This is what has happened; http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115620
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercedes
An acceptance of blame is all any of us expected or wanted. Credit to Nico for that I think. Not sure what disciplinary action they could have taken apart from fining him a few weeks wages. None of it is going to give Hamilton the points he lost back so it's best to move on and hope the gap can once again be closed. It'll be quite bitter at the end if the season if it can't I think but for now they need to focus and forget it IMO.
:yawn:Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
how about applying at last some of your post to yourself :dozey:
Lewis said this :
"Nico and I accept that we have both made mistakes and I feel it would be wrong to point fingers and say which one is worse than the other. "
That's what the stewards said , too , basically .
Let's see if Nico can race clean from here on out.
doubtfulQuote:
Originally Posted by Doc Austin
So , the stewards didn't see evil .
Then Merc said he didn't take Lewis out deliberately .
Then , even Lewis said they both made mistakes .
And , Nico is still an evil cheater who's likely to do more evil by the end of the year ?
Jeez , you guys .
Just string him up and be done with it .
yeah and for those who spent countless posts trying to rationalize an obvious and deliberate punt by Nico can now hopefully come back to reality and do as Nico did
https://eurosport.yahoo.com/news/for...03028--f1.html
accept they were wrong.
To have to endure pages upon pages of weak arguments about it being a "racing incident" and others trying to imply that Hamilton did not leave enough room, when clear video evidence showed the deliberate turn in and plenty of options for Rosberg, as well as those who simply refused to believe Nico's own words after the race last sunday, this bit of news restores some sanity to the whole situation.
Now, it still doesn't take away from the massive points haul he has gained from the situation, and Hamilton was right to say that he was going to get (and got) off with a slap on the wrist. This is now 2 clear cases of Nico being less than ethical in his pursuit for the WDC and i fear we will see another one before the end of the season.
I hope we get clean fair racing with no more mechanical issues for Hamilton. If that were to happen, he would stand a good chance of overhauling this deficit.
btw
as to Nico's penalty, As far as i am concerned the only fair thing would have been for Mercedes to make him sit out qualy in the next race. and start from the back of the grid or the pitlane.
Or make him come into the pits on the first lap and hold him 20 seconds, which would somewhat restore the balance and advantage that was taken away from Hamilton in spa.
At least Nico would still have a perfectly good car in tact and work his way up the grid. Something Hamilton did not have with his damaged car. But it would go a long way to restore the disadvantage.
The problem with penalizing Nico is that it makes him vulnerable to Ricciardo. points wise. Remember, if Nico has a bad result, that also affects the constructor's championship too.Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
I think the fairest thing to do is make Nico support Hamilton until Lewis gets Sunday's lost points back. If Nico does not want to support the team's decision, then they can set him down. From that perspective, he is better off taking second place points than missing a race or starting at the rear.
Then make them take turns winning until both championship are out of the other team's reach. From there, they can punt each other off every race if they want to.
The problem with penalizing Nico is that they BOTH have acknowledged making mistakes that led to the crash .
That is the real problem with penalizing Nico .
Nico deliberately put his nose in , and Hamilton deliberately took it off , if you want it bluntly .
And , they BOTH said it wouldn't happen again .
Do you believe that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
Of course not , Doc . Of course not .Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Austin
But , what it means is that are both taking responsibility in the incident , and they both understand they need to work together at the same time as looking after their own interests .
They'll undoubtedly meet again on track , even though the team may try to keep them apart to some degree .
When they do , it may all come to tears again , but it won't as likely to be just to prove a point .
The point was made .
And , both drivers had to say a few words , not just Nico .
They've left each other room before , and produced some great moments , so I'm sure they can both be fairer to each other .
And , hey , if it gets ugly again , it'll just give us more to debate .
Roll on , Monza .
Ultimately thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
Whatever view you have, it gets F1 going when we have something like this.
If they were puttering about in formation 2 seconds a lap clear of everyone how much fun would that be?
'We've both made mistakes' doesn't necessarily mean Lewis is accepting any fault in the Spa incident. To mean it suggests this season as a whole and they are looking at the wider picture.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
Having read that quote it I didn't interpret it the same as yourself. It doesn't support the Lewis didn't leave enough room argument because it's worded too loosely. They've both been pushing each other off track all season and I think it refers to mistakes made so far.
yup, well saidQuote:
Originally Posted by henners88
and this should further clear things up
http://en.espnf1.com/mercedes/motors...ry/173031.html
Rosberg issues apology to Hamilton, Mercedes and fans
But I'm sure some guys on this forum will still try and twist it into Hamilton being equally to blame lol
nevermind that Rosberg has been punished for the incident
http://en.espnf1.com/mercedes/motors...ry/173017.html
Yawn.
Exactly to what it refers is nebulous , and I believe it was intended as such , so as not to open the discussion of specifics .Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
And , that's ok , simply because this , and Nico's statement were attempts by both to end the speculation .
What is very clear , though , is that there are still many people pointing fingers at Nico , despite Lewis stating it is wrong .
One of Nico's strengths in this was also perhaps one of the things that had him beaten up a bit more than he might have been .
His insistence that he keep the opinions between himself and the team has hurt him here .
With no juicy quotes out there to counter , Nico was generally flailed in the press and on message boards like this one , called a "clumsy cheater" .
Lewis refers to Nico having made "mistakes" , and not clumsy cheating .
He's not saying "He hit me on purpose" any more .
Nico , I believe , fully understands that putting his car where he did to make his point was not the best course of action .
He went for the apex knowing full well that Lewis would do the same .
Not pointing fingers suggests that Lewis got the point .
Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
In other words, probably nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by From The Link
So Rosberg has been blackmailed into an apology andI find it interesting that Rosberg is punished for what even Hamilton's main brown-noser Lauda called a 'racing incident'. Yet disobeying team orders in Hungary and leaking team internals to the press at Spa by Hamilton weren't quite worthy of 'disciplinary action'. They basically sent Nico a letter: 'Sorry Nico, we can't allow you to win the title and we will make sure you don't'. That's all this is about.Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
Now, they are calling it a "racing incident," but that is nothing more than a fall back position. You might remember that initially both Lauda and Wolff were furious with Rosberg.Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster
This is exactly what I said would happen from the first day in post #7:.
They are putting on the happy face and pretending everything is fine, but it's hard to believe they see it as a "racing incident" in light of how big of a stink it made and the fact they had to do something about it.
Both of these guys have been disobeying team orders almost from the beginning. Both used the wrong engine maps against team orders, Hamilton would not move over in Hungary, etc. There is probably even more stuff we don't know about. If you add in Rosberg's "mistake" at Monoco and the supposed "racing incident" at Spa, both drivers have been behaving pretty badly.Quote:
Yet disobeying team orders in Hungary and leaking team internals to the press at Spa by Hamilton weren't quite worthy of 'disciplinary action'.
With the money and work that is on the line here, Mercedes would be crazed to do anything that would affect Nico's chances. Once both championships are put away, maybe, but at least for right now, Nico is 29 points into the championship lead. They would be out of their minds to do anything but give him everything they have.Quote:
They basically sent Nico a letter: 'Sorry Nico, we can't allow you to win the title and we will make sure you don't'. That's all this is about.
It's a too little early for Mercedes to to shoot themselves in both feet, though I have every confidence they will eventually do so.
a likely response from someone who has no leg to stand on and can;t even man up and accept that from Mercedes GP and Nico, wrongdoing was accpeted and punished.Quote:
Originally Posted by journeyman racer
oh well, it was to be expected.
Well there is two scenarios with this one. Either Nico felt after reviewing the incident that he was to blame and took responsibility for it. Or he accepted blame because the team wanted him to. I know how strongly you feel about drivers obeying the team as you made clear after Hungary, so I'm surprised you'd have an issue with scenario two even if that was the case. It was pretty clear cut to me and I think most drivers would hold their hands up after that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster