Hyundai WRT

It is from Estonian media but I can't understand who are they quoting (they say journalist over the sea (Finnish))

Q: Will Ott Tänak drive with Hyundai next year?
Moncet: I hope that Ott stays with us.

Q: Hope? Doesn't Hyundai have a contract with him?
Moncet: I don't make contracts with drivers and will never do it.

Q: So it is not certain that Tänak will continue?
Moncet: Here is nothing certain. There are conditions in the contract that may allow the driver to leave. This is the same in any other field, for example in football. But I hope that Ott belongs here and we will continue together.

In the same article they mention that "Finnish colleague" got a strong message from an English source that Tänak is moving to M-Sport.

So go figure... But in all the interviews that I watched this week where they discussed this Hyundai topic with Tänak that he seems in a way desperate (and has been quite a while like this). He would want to stay and is pushing the team to get the structure in place but he is not seeing the results.

https://www.rallit.fi/jysahtaako-ral...oinen-vastaus/

It's here.

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Originally Posted by flat_right

It is from Estonian media but I can't understand who are they quoting (they say journalist over the sea (Finnish))

Q: Will Ott Tänak drive with Hyundai next year?
Moncet: I hope that Ott stays with us.

Q: Hope? Doesn't Hyundai have a contract with him?
Moncet: I don't make contracts with drivers and will never do it.

Q: So it is not certain that Tänak will continue?
Moncet: Here is nothing certain. There are conditions in the contract that may allow the driver to leave. This is the same in any other field, for example in football. But I hope that Ott belongs here and we will continue together.

In the same article they mention that "Finnish colleague" got a strong message from an English source that Tänak is moving to M-Sport.

So go figure... But in all the interviews that I watched this week where they discussed this Hyundai topic with Tänak that he seems in a way desperate (and has been quite a while like this). He would want to stay and is pushing the team to get the structure in place but he is not seeing the results.

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The question is how much of that he will achieve at M-Sport as currently they are in shambles and even if he moves there he has basically no help from others unless Breen gets a kick out of this move and will be a good 2nd guy in the team. And M-Sport's funds will mostly go to Tänak's salary which also does not help to develop the car to be a winning machinery against TGR or HMSG which have either unlimited or bigger resources.
If this move goes through it will definitely lighten up the series so in that regard I'm actually waiting this to happen but remain sceptical about M-Sport chances in the long run unless they secure some miracle deals (with drivers and sponsors). Unlike most other drivers Tänak doesn't have RedBull backing as well which would cover most of his salary so it will be financially difficult for the Cumbrian side

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Originally Posted by cali

The question is how much of that he will achieve at M-Sport as currently they are in shambles and even if he moves there he has basically no help from others unless Breen gets a kick out of this move and will be a good 2nd guy in the team. And M-Sport's funds will mostly go to Tänak's salary which also does not help to develop the car to be a winning machinery against TGR or HMSG which have either unlimited or bigger resources.
If this move goes through it will definitely lighten up the series so in that regard I'm actually waiting this to happen but remain sceptical about M-Sport chances in the long run unless they secure some miracle deals (with drivers and sponsors). Unlike most other drivers Tänak doesn't have RedBull backing as well which would cover most of his salary so it will be financially difficult for the Cumbrian side

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If they can get the funding they will benefit from having Tänak in the team and it might also help Breen’s development as a driver, they have worked together up until this year, sure this is a different position but with Tänak showing the way it will (hopefully) help Breen the same way Ogier helped Tänak back in 2017.

You all tend to forget one small but important nuance: Redgrey
This cash cow will disappear as soon as Tänak changes teams. Toyota doesn't have a Rally2 car, and the Fiesta feels more like a second-echelon machine at the moment.

I don't quite see why Tanak would want to go to MSport right now.

Certainly not after last two rallies when he finally has results in Hyundai and MSport still has reliability issues and no (visible) development.

Thing is that contracts are often signed at different times of the year than we think. Often it is unexpectedly early. So maybe if he signed before Finland....

Surely it would be great for championship.

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Originally Posted by Eli

If they can get the funding they will benefit from having Tänak in the team and it might also help Breen’s development as a driver, they have worked together up until this year, sure this is a different position but with Tänak showing the way it will (hopefully) help Breen the same way Ogier helped Tänak back in 2017.

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I'm sure this move would help Breen. Still the financial burden remains...

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Originally Posted by bandit12

You all tend to forget one small but important nuance: Redgrey
This cash cow will disappear as soon as Tänak changes teams. Toyota doesn't have a Rally2 car, and the Fiesta feels more like a second-echelon machine at the moment.

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Good point.

Now that the new Hyundai actually seems to perform well. Suninen said it was Redgrey who improved it.

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Originally Posted by bandit12

You all tend to forget one small but important nuance: Redgrey
This cash cow will disappear as soon as Tänak changes teams. Toyota doesn't have a Rally2 car, and the Fiesta feels more like a second-echelon machine at the moment.

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I was thinking a one possible scenario as the Fiesta is quite old now what if this deal will contain developing new Rally 2 machinery and RedGrey has some rights to act as a satellite team or smth?

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Originally Posted by cali

I was thinking a one possible scenario as the Fiesta is quite old now what if this deal will contain developing new Rally 2 machinery and RedGrey has some rights to act as a satellite team or smth?

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But MSport already (recently) put money into MSport Poland.

I have been thinking quite a while, that why RedGrey/Hyundai run so few cars wrc2 cars..? Even Teemu sits at home most of the rallies..
No cars?

Well something must be going on, because articles don't come out of nowhere(mostly, are exceptions ofc).. There aren't any about Neuville or Evans e.g.
Hopefully will hear something soon. If he had 100% signed 2023 contract with Hyundai, I bet he would have said it and concentrate on more important things.

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Originally Posted by TypeR

I have been thinking quite a while, that why RedGrey/Hyundai run so few cars wrc2 cars..? Even Teemu sits at home most of the rallies..
No cars?

Well something must be going on, because articles don't come out of nowhere(mostly, are exceptions ofc).. There aren't any about Neuville or Evans e.g.
Hopefully will hear something soon. If he had 100% signed 2023 contract with Hyundai, I bet he would have said it and concentrate on more important things.

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Early in the season they were still developing the car, and much of the resources were on developing the Rally1 car. Oliver's crash in Finland also took down one chassis.

BTW Jouhki said that Suninen is likely to continue with Hyundai next year, likely in the Rally2 program but also trying to get to the top class.

To add more fuel to the fire:

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/tanak...-lead-hyundai/

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Originally Posted by Eli

To add more fuel to the fire:

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/tanak...-lead-hyundai/

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Points to DF for asking a direct question.

Quite interesting Tanak goes so far as saying this in public instead of "that's not for me to decide". He can hardly be in a better position though, with 2 wins in a row and (likely) negotiating about contract.

For sure Ott can suggest and say if he is good for that or not (Moncet).

This is from the article Eli posted a couple of pages ago. There Moncet mirrors what he said to DF: "It's not my choice or my will to be in this position and especially to have to combine my job as engineer in charge of the engine department with that of team manager. It's hard mentally not to know what what you're going to do on Monday. To be waiting. To take the criticism. To hear that Hyundai needs a real boss. It's not my fault. I really wish they would take a decision once and for all in high places but it is not my responsibility..."

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Originally Posted by mknight

But MSport already (recently) put money into MSport Poland.

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basically poland operation are from rally3 downward...so some room can still be there.

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Originally Posted by cali

I was thinking a one possible scenario as the Fiesta is quite old now what if this deal will contain developing new Rally 2 machinery and RedGrey has some rights to act as a satellite team or smth?

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Would be weird since doing development and renting/servicing Rally2 cars is a part of M-Sport's own business. This is completely different to Toyota and Hyundai factory teams.

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Originally Posted by flat_right

For sure Ott can suggest and say if he is good for that or not (Moncet).

This is from the article Eli posted a couple of pages ago. There Moncet mirrors what he said to DF: "It's not my choice or my will to be in this position and especially to have to combine my job as engineer in charge of the engine department with that of team manager. It's hard mentally not to know what what you're going to do on Monday. To be waiting. To take the criticism. To hear that Hyundai needs a real boss. It's not my fault. I really wish they would take a decision once and for all in high places but it is not my responsibility..."

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After Finland Moncet said the result proves he can be the team boss. Him lamenting that he is in a "semi-lead" position (in addition to another one) and wants a decision is understandable.

Now Tanak answers to Moncet by saying openly he shouldn't. Sure you can say anything, for example to your girlfriend, does not mean she will like you as much after you say it ;)

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Originally Posted by AnttiL

Would be weird since doing development and renting/servicing Rally2 cars is a part of M-Sport's own business. This is completely different to Toyota and Hyundai factory teams.

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Yes, agreed. Doesn't make much sense.

Moncet is not respected as a leader by the Hyundai drivers so he cannot be the one.

As I have said before, for god’s sake, dear Koreans please just decide about team manager’s position!!!!!

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Originally Posted by bomber21

Moncet is not respected as a leader by the Hyundai drivers so he cannot be the one.

As I have said before, for god’s sake, dear Koreans please just decide about team manager’s position!!!!!

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And please don’t quit in 2023!

Is there anything to say the Redgrey deal goes into next year? It's pretty clear Hyundai want out of everything. Obv then not much of a pull for Tanak.

If they pull out of Rally1 manufacturers next two years I'm sure they'll be chased through the courts, it's not worth it so don't worry. They'll do the very minimum though with drivers who are willing to go unpaid or even pay IMO.

It's a shame if they go at all but 11 years is good going historically. They've got 2 manufacturers titles, their spell is done.

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Originally Posted by WRCStan

....They'll do the very minimum though with drivers who are willing to go unpaid or even pay IMO....

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Did you accidentally switch to MSport?
Cause Hyundai is currently running likely the two most expensive drivers in WRC and prolonged their contract not that long ago (about a year).

(Not counting Ogier who is not doing whole season and Kalle who likely signed contract for less even though his current value might be higher)

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Originally Posted by mknight

Did you accidentally switch to MSport?
Cause Hyundai is currently running likely the two most expensive drivers in WRC and prolonged their contract not that long ago (about a year).

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Currently, yes. A lot of changes happened in the last year and clearly they are not steaming on in the same way. They might prefer/mutually agree for Tanak to leave, I consider this done. Neuville seems part of the furniture at least and obviously if he has a solid contract it'll be honoured but I wouldn't be surprised to see them part ways. As for driver #2 and #3, they don't have to pay anybody, that's where we're at.

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Originally Posted by WRCStan

They might prefer/mutually agree for Tanak to leave, I consider this done.

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A month ago, you would probably have been closer to being correct. Now? Where could he go? He would have to have mental problems to jump to M-Sport. That chance (and the desirability of making it happen) has long gone. He'll be driving an i20 for at least another year.

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Originally Posted by WRCStan

Neuville seems part of the furniture at least and obviously if he has a solid contract it'll be honoured but I wouldn't be surprised to see them part ways. As for driver #2 and #3, they don't have to pay anybody, that's where we're at.

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I would guess (since that's all us armchair experts can do really) that Neuville's on the same sort of contract as Tanak. So the current lineup - well, two-thirds of it anyway - are set until the end of 2023. What happens then, and with the third car, is an open question.

If they are set on leaving, it will almost certainly be at the end of 2024 that it happens. It doesn't make much sense to pack up before then, it'd cost just as much to do that as to just run the car as they have been doing until the end of the homologation cycle. The parent company can easily afford it, and don't have a diesel emissions scandal hanging over them, like VW in 2016.

I don't see it with quite as much doom and gloom as it seems you do. Things aren't rosy, that's for sure, but despite that they've caught up pretty quickly with a team/car everyone feared would be utterly dominant (even beating them fair and square in their own back yard, winning a rally that neither of the previous leadership regimes ever managed), and far surpassed the team famous for adapting well to new regulations. The more time passes, the better their car seems to get.

As I said, things seemed in the toilet a month ago. If they'd put out a press release announcing their withdrawal, it wouldn't have been such a surprise. Now, though? It really looks like they've turned a corner. The car clearly isn't a bad one (if it ever was). If they can get their house in order, there's no reason they can't stay indefinitely. They need to as well, because it doesn't seem at all obvious where a new manufacturer would come from, and Ford look like they're flogging a dead horse with their current driver lineup and level of manufacturer investment.

I really hope Hyundai keeps going. The MSport/Citroen era was bad for the sport. If something like that happens congratulations Kalle for 2 or 3 titles.

Eric Boullier new team boss..? Former Lotus and McLaren F1 team boss for nearly 10 years.

French guy.. more to Neuville's side?
https://www.rallyssimo.it/2022/08/22...eric-boullier/

thats hell of a name if its true

At the moment he is the organizer if the French GP which is rumored to lose its place on the Formula 1 calendar.

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Originally Posted by TypeR

Eric Boullier new team boss..? Former Lotus and McLaren F1 team boss for nearly 10 years.

French guy.. more to Neuville's side?
https://www.rallyssimo.it/2022/08/22...eric-boullier/

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Seems like the Italians know a thing or two, based on Dirtfish anyhow: https://dirtfish.com/rally/eric-boul...-lead-hyundai/

Really dunno if this is good or bad news but in twitter some of the comments are not very encouraging :D

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by cali

Really dunno if this is good or bad news but in twitter some of the comments are not very encouraging :D

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

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You mean because of what happened with Kimi back in 2013?

Well, let’s see if the Boullier rumors are confirmed but at least, it would solve definitively the issue so that they can focus on next year. A bit difficult to evaluate his F1 results: in Lotus, the results were quite good and you have to take into account that the owner (Gerard Lopez) was really strange ... to say the least (you can see what he did in soccer, especially about finance, if you’re interested, in Lille, Mouscron, Bordeaux or Boavista). In McLaren, well, the team had issues before him and the Honda motor agreement was made before he arrived.

I will also have an opinion a bit different from a lot of people here about one guy: I think Moncet did the job (does not mean I think he should have full-time job necessarily but he does his best in a shitty situation he was not responsible for); ok, the results may seem short but I think it was really a crap job to cumulate his usual functions + the team director job with only a deputy status meaning he has no full authority, all of that with a car that was late in terms of development when he became interim team director.
For me, he was quite okay in the communication (no polemic raised on his side) and, even if it is still not perfect, the car has a lot improved in terms of reliability since the beginning of the season; with already 3 wins (and contrary to Sardinia where they could have lost everything with Tanak reliability issues, the 2 last ones has nothing to do with luck), they’ve saved the season and it’s a basis to work for next year. I don’t really think they could have done much more with how late they were this winter; the strategy about focusing on gravel was good as the car already shows some good speed on tarmac in Croatia and considering the remaining rounds and in the end, they still were able to win Ypres.

Moncet continues as deputy team director, Hyundai confirms. Other stories are false and they needed to make it clear.

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Originally Posted by TypeR

Moncet continues as deputy team director, Hyundai confirms. Other stories are false and they needed to make it clear.

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At least no Boullier :D

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

The thing is... Moncet really isn't doing that bad of a job.

In WRC, they have the same number of wins as 2021 already, with an improving car.

In WTCR, they're walking away with both titles.

Recently their ETCR car scored its first event win.

The Rally2 car is improving, and was fast enough to win in Finland.

Sure he isn't a dominant or outgoing character, but look at the stinking situation their 'charismatic' main man left them in... the very stinking situation Moncet has been put in temporary charge of and expected to perform miracles...

For all the talk around him, the criticism, the drivers claiming he isn't the right man, what more was he supposed to do? Turn water into wine?

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Originally Posted by cali

At least no Boullier :D

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

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Hopefully that's the case into the future as well

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Originally Posted by ouvreur

The thing is... Moncet really isn't doing that bad of a job.

In WRC, they have the same number of wins as 2021 already, with an improving car.

In WTCR, they're walking away with both titles.

Recently their ETCR car scored its first event win.

The Rally2 car is improving, and was fast enough to win in Finland.

Sure he isn't a dominant or outgoing character, but look at the stinking situation their 'charismatic' main man left them in... the very stinking situation Moncet has been put in temporary charge of and expected to perform miracles...

For all the talk around him, the criticism, the drivers claiming he isn't the right man, what more was he supposed to do? Turn water into wine?

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manage drivers.
and board relationship.
other stuff is really about other people ( engine apart, of course)

Maybe when Tänak is saying that Moncet is not suitable for that job, his is not meaning it literally but rather that if Moncet would be promoted, their engine department would be weaker. Hyundai has a very good engine and Toyota even had to bring upgraded version of their own to Rally Estonia to match Hyundai. So to keep this part going strong, Tänak wants someone else.

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Originally Posted by wyler

manage drivers.
and board relationship.
other stuff is really about other people ( engine apart, of course)

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The problem is, he hasn't had a fair crack at it, at least when it comes to disciplining drivers. All along, he's been the 'deputy', the 'interim'... the caretaker, basically. Do you see Tanak or Neuville taking a bollocking from him?

Same with the 'board relationship', when that board isn't even prepared to make a decision about his own position, do you see him kicking their arse to get the 'organisation structure' sorted, as many have said is needed?

I think he's been given a thankless task these last 8 months, and yes, maybe all the progress has happened regardless of his effort. But frankly just to keep having a microphone shoved in front of his face when things have gone wrong, to put up with having fairly unpleasant things written about him, the team and the car in many places, and doing so without losing his cool in public, that's worth something to me. If I were making the decision, I'd at least let him have a go at the job full-time, without the 'deputy' hanging over him and limiting his credibility and power.