Another weekend, another weekend of elite level sport - and large crowds present. (Silverstone, and Royal St George's, Kent).....It is annoying as a rallyfan, but it's a case of 'hard luck' and wait.
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Another weekend, another weekend of elite level sport - and large crowds present. (Silverstone, and Royal St George's, Kent).....It is annoying as a rallyfan, but it's a case of 'hard luck' and wait.
Dunoon is 30 miles and a short ferry trip from the center of Glasgow. Those stages are more accessible to residents of central Scotland than the Welsh forests are to the population of the English midlands - ferry capacity is likely to be the most limiting factor for access.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whinlatter
Nicky Grist highlights are up on youtube now:
https://youtu.be/pNfBE16uDYQ
Stylistically I think format looks good, it doesn't look as cheap as some of the highlights have appeared in recent years, even when they were still on television... But seriously, why is there no onboard footage?! I'd love to see the onboards from the last stage at least. Would this not seriously enhance and extend the coverage cheaply? It's not like most crews are running without cameras nowadays. It's like going back 35 years!Quote:
Originally Posted by HKSjbg
I’d also like to see one or two introductory scenic shots, probably so easy these days with drones - though on an MoD site that’s probably a firm no!
I’ve been watching loads of early 90s BRC videos on VHS Rallies on youtube lately, it was always nice to see a very big shot of Brenig reservoir, Kielder Water and, presumably, one of the lochs around Perth.
I agree the quality has gone up by quite some margin compared to recent years but it’s still missing a few extra details like 80s and 90s rally reports used to have.
I wonder if they can do the Grampian slightly differently due to no extra MoD-related restrictions...
I guess it's more difficult these days with everyone already knowing exactly what happened and having watched streams and social media clips.
I think they could show a longer programme though - 8 mins is a bit pathetic, like a token gesture.
https://twitter.com/ScottishRallyQuote:
Originally Posted by Sal the 2nd
Mellors Elliot Motorsport - Proton Iriz R5 set for rally return
We are delighted to announce that Ollie Mellors and Max Freeman will return to the stages after their sizeable shunt at the Nicky Grist.
We have begun work on a new car for the pairing who have entered the Hills Ford Three Shires Stages in a bid to get comfortable on tarmac for some exciting plans later this year.
Huge thanks to everyone for their well-wishes and support!
This isn’t meant as a BRC bashing post, but look at how well the Welsh Championship covered the NG Stages: https://youtu.be/9yJNs8uBWbw
There are clearly some things the BRC’s coverage does a bit better but you can hardly fault this for nearly 27 minutes of good quality coverage
I thought it was interesting they disabled comments.....
I think that automatically happens if the video is meant as suitable for kids. Which on the one hand makes sense if you want the younger generation interested in your sport, but on the other the Welsh Rally Championship is hardly going to be the place for highly controversial comments!Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
Grampian Rally Unseeded Entry list:
https://www.rallies.info/webentry/20...ies.php?type=u
Still no results through for SS1 and the stage end video didnt work. :(
Two stage wins for Wilson - road position helping I guess.
So Matt Wilson takes the win with Pryce 2nd & Yates 3rd.
Sadly Edwards retired with an engine misfire.
BRC coverage of the Grampian: https://youtu.be/2qjTcTMlijI
I’ve come to the conclusion that although nicely polished, this new video coverage of the BRC just falls a bit flat. It just feels a bit like you’re watching any rally which could be held in any forest somewhere in the UK. No sense of it being Britain’s premier rally series. What’s everyone else’s take on it?
The coverage is fine; they do a good job, with limited material to work with. It's over 20 years since we has BBC coverage, and just under that for the excellent CH4 coverage of the F2 days. When you have top drivers, teams, and budgets etc it's a lot easier to make events look like they're important.Quote:
Originally Posted by HKSjbg
Our premier series basically is just another rally series - and the events are 'club' events. One day forest events (and less than 40 mins of timed stages) are not what a country's premier series should be about.....but we know why. How we get the BRC to a similar level to BTCC, BSB, British GT is the holy grail for UK rallying.
Scrambled into the forests for the grampian. Lovely weather, great pace from the top guys but Matt Wilson was visibly faster through this 5 left in Fetteresso we watched from. Amazing commitment using every inch of the road and more.
Hopefully the grampian keeps it's place on the brc calendar. Scotland has so many superb gravel stages, whether the grampian stages, Perthshire stages or the Trossachs. Just a shame the latter two areas haven't seen rallying in years, and that won't change unless Scotland gets a WRC round in the forests up here.....
Best of the Grampian videos:
https://youtu.be/YlXL0JY-u2Q
There's a saying 'use them or lose them'. When forests don't get used for rallying for a period of time, they usually become 'off limits'; as the leisure side takes over.Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
Great shout. McDiarmid Park as your service park, a day’s stages at Carron Valley and Loch Ard, another day around Fetteresso/Durris/Drumtochty and your final day in the Tay Forest park stages.Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
But then that’s a discussion for another thread... :D
Nice idea but I see the Green's are now in power in Scotland (with the SNP). I cant see any chance of this govt giving a new WRC event the time of day.
Glad to hear it, too far for me to go and chance it, particularly not knowing the lay of the land up there. I'm still gutted so many had to miss the Nicky Grist. They're putting on a great show on the stages this year and it might not be repeated...Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
I still can't get my head around them not using any onboards...Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
Totally agree, but I've come to believe/somewhat accept that this is what 'the bubble' are comfortable with. The obscurity some want the sport to hide in will probably be the death of it in the end, as it's easy to ban something nobody can see or care about.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
I'd base it at Ingliston/Edinburgh Airport, the Royal Highland Centre. 50 mins away Cardrona/Elibank in the Borders, 1hr 5m to Craigvinean, 45m to Carron Valley or 55 minutes to the core Trossachs stages.Quote:
Originally Posted by HKSjbg
I'm afraid I think you're right, unless they can be duped by the Hybrids.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
I went to the Historic Rally Festival at Weston Park today. Nice event, could really do with being a timed rally, as there seemed to be little impetus for many entrants to push on. A good few moments down at the water splash though, even if regardless of yesterday's rain it was more of a puddle, even with it being topped up between stages with a hose pipe! :D
And for those (on BRF...) who say spectators don't pay, £16 to £22 each and there was a good crowd there. All purchased in advance I believe. The sport isn't dead yet, no matter how hard they try...
Andy & Sniper
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
What you have completely failed to take into account is that nobody is prepared to pay the going rate to enter the kind of events you'd like to see. ANCRO went bust because nobody wanted to pay for 60/70/80 miles of forest on one day. BRC entires dried up because nobody wanted to spend a day of recce followed by a 2 -3 days of competition.Quote:
Originally Posted by the sniper
I've been involved as spectator, service crew, competitor, marshal and event organiser for 50 years & I'd love to see the "golden age" return but until enough people are prepared to pay for it it isn't going to happen.
If you are really serious about the kind of event that you'd like to see then you need to lobby your MP to bring back tobacco & alcohol advertising. That's where the money really came from to cover the cost of those classic events you'd like to see return.
Isn't the question, why don't they want a bigger challenge? So, a 45 mile one day club event is the limit of most competitors ambition? So they buy an ex WRCar to do it in, or pay silly money for a Mk II.
Nice footage of the Grampian Rally from Sideways Media: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlXL0JY-u2Q
While I do understand that, the Roger Albert Clark shows that people are willing to pay more for something with greater value. The RAC is two thirds of what I'd like to see as a BRC season, in terms of time and distance. As it is, with 7 mainly shorter events, including a trip to Mull and Northern Ireland this year, must involve additional costs that a shorter season of 5 longer events would eliminate or at least match.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Boyd
With the difficulties with accessing the forests and the increasingly onerous responsibility put on organising clubs, I think the whole model needs to change. My vision would be 5 MSUK organised, two day rallies, three in the forests (Yorkshire, Scottish, Welsh), two on tarmac (NI & Manx), 200km to 220km each. You'll have BRC with recce and, as has been working this year, a British National title, for those not doing recce. Ideally you'd get the British Historic Championship to follow the same calendar, as it's actually somewhat truer to what rallying historically was. The poorer rich guys spending 250k on Escorts or more on WRC cars that can't afford that can do the BRTDA instead, if it can continue to find 7 surviving forest rallies going forward...
@SteveBoyd
When were tobacco and alcohol companies sponsoring BRC events ?
I know they sponsored teams, is that what you mean ?
The last I can find is the 1988 Rothmans Circuit of Ireland :D
Even Marlboro used to sponsor the Lindisfarne Rally up until about ‘85/’86
Both teams and events. They put money into the sport in various ways. Rothmans, in particular, were very involved. Aside from event, team and personal sponsorship they used to put rally shows on around the country with guest speakers, films & competitions to win a variety of goodies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
It sounds great but . . . .Quote:
Originally Posted by the sniper
How much would the entry fees be (don't forget that if MSUK organise it there will be salaries to pay that current events don't pay)?
How many competitors would be interested in entering?
Without a significant sponsorship deal I doubt that it would be viable. Back in the golden years events could offer free entries & start money to significant entrants.
The RAC is a special case. It only happens once every two years, and it isn't a coincidence that that it takes place on the years that there isn't a Silver Fern rally. It lets the really wealthy historic competitors have an adventure every year - one in each hemisphere. It also lets those who aren't quite so well heeled save up for a couple of years between the events. It's rare so it's aspirational. BRC is seen as humdrum. It will need a special marketing effort to turn that attitude around, particularly in the eyes of those who think that BTRDA is a national championship rather that the club championship that it actually is.
https://twitter.com/BRCrally/status/1430075774275571722
They'll need a new media guy.......
Thats going back three decades though. The ban has been on for a long time and the sport continued with good events and entries. This was with new sponsors and new Manufacturers like Seat. These are what needs to come back but sadly rally is not seen as a worthwhile investment any more in the UK. How do other national championships do it ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Boyd
The Seat sponsorship of the Jim Clark was 20 years ago; they took over the whole town, plus the local park area with all kinds of activities. Since then, we've rarely seen that type of backing for BRC events. I think the decline of the BRC is very much a 21st century happening. It's become less and less visible, hence less and less sponsors and money coming into the sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Other national championships haven't had the same issues - they're obviously a lot more proactive, and forward thinking - and can attract/keep sponsors. As a sport, we're our own worst enemy.
I'd be happy with that sort of set-up if we had a mixture of single day events and, say, RallyGB as your multi-day forest event plus three asphalt events. Even if that meant competitors could choose their best 5 scores from 6 (or just enter the 5 events).Quote:
Originally Posted by the sniper
I had been thinking it was a bit of catch-22 situation - big sponsors need a high-calibre championship to be a part of, the sponsors and other backers need the championship to be worth their effort in the first place. But really it's down to the BRC promotor/organiser to get those companies interested in the first place. Companies still involved in rallying to this day - Michelin, Castrol, Renault, Hyundai, Toyota etc. etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
It seems like they're not really doing anything (easy for me to say, I know) to convince, for example, Renault to put on a Clio Cup like in France/ERC or Hyundai to send works drivers to the UK like they have been doing in Italy.
And before you say it, I know, there's wayyyyyyy more to it than that, my point is more that it feels like the BRC sees itself as a club championship with a fancy title that used to mean something around the world. Instead of aiming, as it should be, to be the best domestic rally championship in Europe or the whole world, however long it would take to achieve that.
What if a proper promoter came on board? Eurosport don't have a rally series to promote now :D
Three decades ago is when the decline started. While the F2000 era is fondly remembered by many, it happened because of a restriction that banned 4WD cars from the BRC in response to declining entries and marginal finances. It attracted a few manufacturers for a few years but there were costs to events and competitors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
The Manx and Scottish had to withdraw from the ERC. You could say it wasn't a great loss as they didn't attract many European competitors but the Europeans didn't come because those that did struggled to compete against the best of the BRC. That gave at least some measure of the level of the UK competitors.
The Manx and Jim Clark were also forced out of the Irish Tarmac Championship limiting entries on those events and removing a way of gauging British championship drivers against those from the Irish championship.
It also took away the opportunity for the top BRC runners to measure themselves against the WRC runners in Rally GB. Burns & McCrea, and before them Brookes, Pond, Wilson &c could enter the RAC (Rally GB now) in the car they used all year and compete in the same class at the top world runners. Under the BRC F2000 rules they needed to find a different car to do that.
The fall off in manufacturer inerest in the BRC coupled with losing a year due to the foot & mouth outbreak caused another re-think of the rules. 4WD S2000 cars were permitted but nobody was interested in them. If only they had taken off like R5 did we may have seen an upsurge in the BRC.
I also believe that trying to market the BRC as a "stepping stone" was a mistake. The BRC should be sold as an end in itself. It should be strong enough for the top drivers to want to compete in it for a decade or more, not just do 2 years and then move on elsewhere to ERC or WRC or give up because they can't get a WRC or ERC deal. If the BRC was that strong we'd get young Scandinavians coming here to get experience and prove themselves and the series would actually be a stepping stone for some while still being a career opportunity for others, but that needs promotion and finances that simply aren't there.
I've been saying this for years; I look at the BTCC, that's not set up a stepping stone to elsewhere. It's an end in itself - if people move on somewhere else, then good for them. That is what the BRC should have been. Good events, providing a test for all competitors, and providing excellent action for fans/media, etc However, that boat has long gone.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Boyd
There is no viable solution.....and I'm not sure making it an all Tarmac series is the panacea people think it might be.
Sadly, I have to agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
Trackrod spectator & ticket info:
https://www.rallyyorkshire.co.uk/spectator-information/
https://rallyyorkshire.ticketco.even...yorkshire_2021
Trackrod full entry: https://www.rallies.info/webentry/20...e=u&combined=1