Makes you wonder what it will take to get Loeb back in the car for a day or two...?
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Makes you wonder what it will take to get Loeb back in the car for a day or two...?
I doubt getting any driver for a day or two would help that much. Latvala did a massive amount of km last year with the Yaris in order to improve it. Even if you argue Loeb or whoever is so much better at setup it will still take him at least a few days to get a base setup and understand the car and then subsequent tests to come up with improvement ideas and verify them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Munkvy
About Citroen, in general it's way late but at least Matton admitted he has to change something, but as others have pointed out the whole venture was not the best organised. I'm not sure how many drivers helped develop the car but if you look at all the other teams they had several drivers drive the cars at various points whereas at Citroen it seems it was mainly Meeke.
Citroen has had a different driver/car line-up for every rally now
Monte: Meeke&Lefebvre C3, Breen DS3
Sweden: Meeke&Breen C3, Levebvre DS3
Mexico: Meeke&Lefebvre C3
Corsica: Meeke&Breen&Lefebvre C3
Argentina: Meeke&Breen C3
Portugal: Meeke&Breen&Lefebvre&Al-Qassimi C3
Sardinia: Meeke&Breen&Mikkelsen C3
Poland: Mikkelsen&Breen&Lefebvre C3
perhaps again something different for Finland? Maybe the normal three drivers and Mikkelsen in fourth car?
THIS! i just don get it what has happened, the car looked great in testing videos and they were testing their asses off. Every time Meeke contested last year he repeated: "Just wait till you see me in the 17 car".Quote:
Originally Posted by Archie Gillaine
what has happened between the end of the last season and beginning of this season? something must have gone so wrong.
and now to dump Meeke for poland is idiotic IMO. i dont see how he will be getting better sitting a round out. They should dump Lefebvre or put him in the 16 car.
but what do i know.
there's clear logic in this: Meeke didn't contest in Poland last year, but Breen and Lefebvre did, and set some decent times there. Meanwhile, it also makes sense to put Mikkelsen in one of the cars, because he won the event last year.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
My own idea is that perhaps Citroen's budget is running out and they cannot afford anymore crashes? We must remember that in addition to Meeke's rolls, Lefebvre has had a crash of some sort in all his events of this year. Maybe that's why Mikkelsen was so cautious, he was told to make sure the car finishes? or he was promised a new drive if he finishes?
ok fair enough. i didnt remember that he didnt contest in poland last year but i still think it wont change much. i really hope it does
Citroen driver transition: Meekelsen...
Interesting! No idea that JC Vaucard played a major role on the 2008 evolution (thought it was mainly due to Peterhansel efforts). He’s a remarkable technician and like you’ve said it’d be great to see him giving a hand to Citroen, ASAP.Quote:
Originally Posted by TWRC
Still, I believe Citroen should do everything to get Ogier next year; he’s really a game changer.
Very embarrassing for the team and drivers
One thing is sure - it shows how valuable is to judge the performance of the cars from testing videos:)))
judging was at asphalt tests,and at Corse we saw exactly the same as at tests.A fast c3 and a slow yaris.Quote:
Originally Posted by br21
Of course plenty can change due to evolving through the season.
A slow Yaris which won the power stage...Hänninen also made some fast times when he wasn't busy crashing.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
He is talking about tarmac. Different surfaces.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
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Exactly. Latvala won the PS.Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
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yes when everything is decided.Quote:
Originally Posted by steve.mandzij
No, both Ogier and Latvala overtook Sordo and Breen respectively on the final stage.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
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Sordo had setup problems at whole rally.Quote:
Originally Posted by steve.mandzij
Some stage comments to see how difficult was to overpass Sordo at this rally.
#6
Sordo Dani - Martí Marc
"It's like before in the rally, everything was strange here. I'm happy with third place."
The feel with the car is like yesterday. I don't know whether the stage time is going to be good or bad at the finish. It's a bit like a lottery.
"I can't do better. For me I can't do better. I'm at maximum, maximum, maximum. But it's still not good
"I tried to push but it's not so good
"In this stage I pushed more and the time appears to be worse than I was expecting. It's difficult to work out the driving style that's required
"The worst stage in my life – unbelievable. I can't push and was really slow. By kilometre three, I just wanted to get to the end of the stage
"I try a different style of driving and we have a little bit of understeer in the corners. The feeling is not bad but the times aren't what we expect."
"In some places I didn't feel very comfy in the car and I didn't have the confidence. Some places were a little bit damp as well."
What about Breen and Latvala then? Showdown between Yaris and C3.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
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Haha, didn't realize my comment applies to three rallies :DQuote:
Originally Posted by cali
But how do Sordo's problems relate to Latvala overtaking Breen?
you really believe that Latvalas/Yaris speed measure is Breen at last stage when is the only shitroen crew?Quote:
Originally Posted by steve.mandzij
No its not Breen,not Lefebvre,its Meeke,Neuville Ogier,and after 4 stages he was 1 minute slower.
I remember hearing back in the days, that the c4 was faster than the focus, but much more difficult to drive. That it required the super smooth loeb style to make it go fast without crashing. The ford seemed easier and more forgiving.
Perhaps citroen has build a new car like this, but doesn't have the right driver for it.
Mikkelsen is used to teamorders that says; drive to finish, get km to learn car and rallies from hos first years at VW motorsport 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Driving @ 90-95% is an art as well as getting up to 100 when needed or allowed.
While I feel bad for Meeke, it seems to me that Citroen are the architects of their own demise. A little like Mitsubishi in the mid to late 90s, when you have an entire team and car built around one driver,and his driving style, it's bound to fall apart when that driver leaves. Look at the struggles Delecour and A. McRae had with the Lancer after Makinen left Mitsubishi. It's almost always ominous when you hear that a particular car needs a particular driving style. Citroen will take a while to recover from the Loeb era.
Partially true. The Lancer WRC wasn't that good for Mäkinen either, but Freddy Loix said he was totally lost in the Lancer Evo with Mäkinen's settings. Dunno how Burns managed it though.Quote:
Originally Posted by RAS007
I remember that even in the Group A days, Timo Salonen said he couldn't drive the Galant in 1991 1000 Lakes Rally with the type of front diff Kenneth Eriksson had set up. Salonen had driven a lot of RWD cars and Eriksson had driven a lot of FWD cars so they had a very different driving style
very good blog post about this situation IMO http://www.worldrallyblog.com/2017/0...ht-way-things/
like i also said some pages back, it wont do any better for Meeke.
Yeo, and look how it turned out for Malcolm.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
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What´s the problem adapting a car after different driving styles? Don´t understand the discussion regarding cars that are undriveable for all drivers except one.
I don't agree with that blog post.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
Duval was driving at ok speed after he got back, stable and with 3-4 place speed. It seemed that the decision was already made.
Meeke has been crashing for quite long and was in similar situation in 2014 when he wasn't dropped.
Note that quite often Wilson's successes actually come from dropping drivers for a season. I.e. Evans last year, Tanak in 2013 etc. NOT from keeping them crashing in same car.
The examples given for not pulling mid-season are also often not valid. Say Østberg last year had extremely good first half of the season, so why would you drop him in the middle of it? Tanak in 2012 started crashing in the second half. etc.
Meeke is going to 40, he drives since Colin McRae era. You can do all you want, make him miss events, or give support and trust, he will not change his driving style.
I don't think that Matton is doing this to help Meeke, I think he is thinking of future and wants to give more space possible to Mikkelsen, especially in the development of the car.
The point is that in my opinion he made a mistake at the beginning of the season saying "if Mikkelsen and Latvala call me I will answer only because I am polite". He didn't see this coming and maybe he should...
Then what should Matton do? Let him keep crashing brand new cars on every event like he did in Sardinia, and hope for a change somewhere down the road? And yes, as much as I like Meeke, if he's not mentally strong enough to get back from this, then questionmarks can rightfully be raised over his future.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
Someone can read this:
http://www.autosport.com/premium/fea...citroen-crisis
Exactly, before VW pulled out you could argue Citroen couldn't get a much better lineup with what drivers were available, however the moment 3 of the top 5 (if not THE top 3) drivers in the WRC became available it was quite silly to not get at least one of them, especially as they had tested the '17 Polo for most of 2016... As Capito said in that podcast, this "learning year" business is silly and you have to adapt to the circumstances. It may not have been as easy, because there were probably contracts in place and so on, but that's where a manager has to step in and create the best situation possible for his team.Quote:
Originally Posted by AL14
I think Matton should go, not Kris. There is many people in this world, that can do his job, but I cant find 10 of them, who can drive a car like Kris... Kris needs a decent "racing supervisor" (even ValeRossi has Cadalora) to eliminate stupidities, not carrier destructive moves to destroy concentration...
in short:Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
- reviews Meeke's season, says he had too many crashes
- draws a parallel to Duval getting suspended, suggesting it's the wrong idea
- criticizes car, relates it to budget cuts in the mixed PSA motorsport department
- says being replaced by Mikkelsen might actually be good for Meeke if Mikkelsen doesn't perform
- says Citroen has a strange testing programme regarding location choice
- questions if it was right to have just Meeke develop the C3 (all or nothing driver produced a car that is always on a knife edge)
- says Mattons should have gotten Mikkelsen from the start
Basically, nothing that hasn't been discussed in this forum already.
Didn't know about any budget cuts. Also the testing locations is kind of new, I only wondered how clever it was to let Mikkelsen test in France.
He might have more info about budget cuts but it has been suggested here that Al Qassimi is footing a big part of the bill. Also he doesn't really say any actual facts or new info in the article. Could be true, could be his opinion. He hints that off the record Citroen drivers complain more that the car is on a knife edge, but again we knew that already...Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
So Meeke crashed again.. if Mikelssen had actually been good this weekend then Meeke should have been worried, but it seems Citroen's problems extend way beyond just Meeke crashing too much.
He just got kicked from the lineup for a rally and he shouldn't be worried?Quote:
Originally Posted by RS
What's more Mikkelsen's and Breen's setup issues have shown that the car Meeke has been developing whole last year has huge issues.
Yeah it feels like Meeke is a scapegoat. He was on course for his second and consecutive win in Corsica just a few months ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
To elude Meeke driving issues (like Brit rally journos do) won't help Meeke at all. After his Argentina collapse, Evans, Clark and the other guys should have made a public wake-up call, asking Meeke for a different approach, instead of just keep pointing at the car troubles (with crappy stories like the ‘bring Sainz to help’ one).Quote:
Originally Posted by Sladden
Btw, Matton was more than loyal to Meeke; he gave him the leader driver role, despite Meeke's irregular past, and delayed as much as he could a change on the line up. Italy was the reality check moment. Let's just hope Meeke can learn from it.