Budar sounds like their hopes are pinned on signing Ogier. Good luck with that one ! ;)
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Budar sounds like their hopes are pinned on signing Ogier. Good luck with that one ! ;)
A multiple rally winner.Quote:
Originally Posted by pantealex
Let’s give them a break. They’ve already fix the car but Meeke’s episode made them lose a bit of focus. They now need some stability (having Breen moaning doesn’t help…) and get a proper budget to keep development and run 3 cars next season. Even without Ogier, Neuville or Tanak (current top drivers) they can have a competitive driver line up, if they choose wisely.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS
What's Breen been moaning about? I haven't been paying attentionQuote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
And maybe if drivers keep moaning it says something about the team and car.
Not as badly as Matton last year. At least Budar has acknowledged there's other good drivers who he could be interested inQuote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
And the people sitting on top of the money bags are aware that Kris Meeke is not good enoughQuote:
Originally Posted by er88
Well you the smart ones, tell us dumb ones who are top drivers besides Ott, Ogi and Neuville. Latvala, Meeke? Maybe Loeb the only one but he will not embarass himself, I think. Mikkelsen is out of reach and he is not in that league yet. Lappi, Paddon, Evans... Sordo give up and probably don't want full year anymore.
But by all that what I see is one name on side that we all forget about is.... wait for it.............The one and only Qassimi........ Oh shit he is worse than R2 cars but hey if he is goving Budar a paycheck why not set him as leading driver....
Multiple rally winners that are out of contracts after 2018:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Ogier,
Neuville
Latvala
Single rally winners that are out of contract after 2018:
Paddon,
Sordo
Østberg
(think Evans also has contract next year)
Unexpected signings might happen, like when Neuville went from M-Sport to Hyundai after finishind 2nd in 2013.
It is also possible they might let Tidemand drive some rallies that don't overlap with WRC2 plans this year.
he has said without Kris development and setup knowledge Citroen are going to struggle. Looking at shakedown results he has a point.Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
I don't think he was moaning, he said it's a shame Kris has gone but it is what it is. Was probably just answering a loaded question from the press.
If you are hearing it it also says something about the driver...Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
If you are paying the bills yourself then complaining is OK I think.
If they are paying you to drive then it might be wise that you don't complain publicly
Unless you win every time out..
And that makes it look so bleak for Citroen. I'm fascinated to see what plans they actually have for 19/20, as I still can't see them sticking around if they can't get an elite driver.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
IMO they aren't going to get a better driver than Kris unless they give Ogier the biggest contract in WRC history. Even then Seb isnt motivated by money, he's motivated by championships and there's a big question mark over whether he will even continue in the sport anyway.
Neuville isn't going to leave Hyundai and Jari probably isn't a step up from Meeke + doesn't know the C3 at all. It leaves Citroen taking a gamble on Paddon or trying to nurture Tiedemand (although I have a feeling his future is linked with Skoda's return to the WRC). Sordo, Ostberg and Breen would be one of the most dull WRC team lineups since Gardemeister/Kresta in 2005, unless Breen can find another level (fingers crossed he can). Everyone already knows Sordo and Ostberg aren't really drivers who can fight for wins on a regular basis.
I don't see Sordo going back to Citroen. Budar has stated he wants a settled squad with full time drivers, doesn't even want Loeb next year if he only wants to do a few rallies (although head honchos may overrule that) and Dani doesn't seem keen on full program any more.
That and the fact he is mates with Kris, probably knows how much of a turd the c3 is.
He is doing well in the rallies he's been doing this year, can see Hyundai retaining him.
Edit: agree re tideman, think he should stay on skodas books if they are coming back to wrc proper, would be better long term prospects.
Ask yourselves which top driver would take gamble with the dog that C3 WRC seems to be?
According to Budier Meeke was gambling his life.. given 9th and 10th.. it certainly looks that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonkka
For God’s sake, stop bashing Citroen just because they fired Meeke. Even the Brit journos that spent last year defending him recognized that Meeke has become a loose canon and there was no other choice for Citroen. Besides, you should take a look on your hero path: besides Opel on his first JWRC season and Mini in 2011, Citroen and Peugeot were the only brands supporting Meeke through his rally career; without the French he would probably have retired a long time ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
Btw, the WRC isn’t about driver A or B; it’s about the manus that choose to be part of this sport, giving the most talented drivers a chance to live their passion and delight the fans. Without manus the WRC becomes insignificant; we should be asking manus to get in and stay, not to leave.
Citroen performance is now an complete embarrassment. They cant even blame the drivers now. without retriements they would be 8th and 9th. they cant even say they had 1 competitive time today. if they are trying to promote their brand.. it not working out too well. what part of that do you not get.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
Competitive times
1: https://www.ewrc-results.com/results...2018/?s=172256
2: https://www.ewrc-results.com/results...2018/?s=172263
3, so-so: https://www.ewrc-results.com/results...2018/?s=172257
There`s nothing to catch anymore anyway, so why total cars in the process? Like Meeke and Loeb showed, it can be competitive.
It can be hard for you to understand: I’m not a Citroen fan, I’m a rally fan. Anyone can see they’re still struggling to be at the top but we all should be wishing they can get there asap and praise their efforts, instead of bashing them on a permanent basis.Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
Btw, like Tarmop showed, the C3 can’t be so bad when Ostberg is able to do the same time of an Ogier in attack mode.
Does it hurt?Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
That Citroen are like a rudderless ship? No. it actually quite funny.Quote:
Originally Posted by danon
Meeke developed-tested it...
Just out of curiosity, how was Loeb able to win stages and lead with it in Mexico? First time on those stages, first time with new tires, first competitive start in a new generation WRC a long time after his last start in the series, with a co-driver most definitely enjoying his cuisine .
Lets be clear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarmop
Loeb had 50% crash rate on his return.
That in itself shows what you have to do to get times from the car.
He had one goal. to win the rally. nothing else.
He most likely had every conceivable upgrade to the car.
He is the best ever driver to grace a rallycar.
So yes, in certain areas it can be quick, but sporadically
When Lappi and Toyota got into their stride, they cleaned the floor with Loeb and Citroen. Could you ever have thought that?
Don`t remember crashing in Mexico, only a puncture.
Crash in Corsica, no crash in Mexico = 50% crash rate?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarmop
It might possibly hurt their sales. Citroen need to build desirable cars, they don't necessarily need to win championships. Ford have not exactly won loads of championships in the last 30 years but have still shifted a lot of cars, partly through the connection between rallying and the RS brand.Quote:
Originally Posted by danon
On this rally forum, how many of us drive a Citroen? If any, did you buy one on the back of wrc success?
I think firing Meeke, in the way they have, is only going to hurt sales and brand image, I've only seen tweets from people saying they were thinking of buying a Citroen (usually a van cos their cars aren't desirable) but won't touch one now, not a sudden influx of people wanting to buy one now they've fired Kris.
That said, they would need to sell a few to cover the crash damage cost!
it's kind of special french logic, if you not good - make a decision to make it worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm75
Citroen don't really build desirable cars - certainly not performance variants; they haven't taken advantage of their previous WRC success. A 'C4 by Loeb' and a DS3 Racing are really the only 2 half decent cars they've had. Pretty pathetic.
And their rivals all have performance cars, and all rated highly by the journalists.....so they're even losing there.
Indeed. Rally Power mentioned we should stop bashing Citroen. Is now not the time they need bashing with a really big, heavy stick. You are quite right, the last car they built that had any desirability is the DS3. The last car that had any true competitiveness.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
Do they use that car, and build on its base for the new wrc era cars, or build a completely new and unproven car to try and promote a bland eurobox. All other Manus just built on the base of the previous generation cars, which were a more stable base.
This year they start with a fixed budget, they know they have an unpredictable car that likes to bounce itself of the road or go into snap oversteer suddenly, so do they keep a contingency for inevitable crash repair costs or do they blow half the budget on hiring Loeb to do a few rallies.
Going back to the desirability of the brand, Citroen used to make highly innovative cars, traction Avant, 2cv, ds and cx etc, but now they are just like any other euro box.
I was considering a DS3 even for my youngest son's 1st car, now not so sure.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see Citroen pull out of wrc, but the decisions made by them have not been the most logical ones.
PSA only sold 3.6 million vehicles last year. Purchased Opel/ Vauxhall in 2017.
https://media.groupe-psa.com/en/stro...orldwide-sales
One might expect a sales dip in Dungannon.
Surely if your roads are salted in winter you would get your son a galvanised Audi or something similar.
Not really a fan of Audi's, other than old 5 cylinder quattro.
Around here they are predominantly driven by arseholes that sit right on your bumper. In any case, I don't expect the life expectancy of my son's first car to outlive any need for long lasting rust protection!
Meeke hardcore fans refusing to buy a PSA car after he was fired will have a short brand list to choose from: they can’t buy a Toyota/Daihatsu/Lexus neither, as Makinen already said he wasn’t interested on Meeke; a Mini or BMW, as he was dumped by the Germans at the end of 2011; any VW Group car, once VW choose Mikkelsen over him in 2012 and certainly no Ford, having in mind the numerous occasions Meeke was available and Mr. Wilson never bother to sign him. That leaves a Hyundai or Kia as sole options (hope they styill buy a car from a WRC manu…), but they should be quick if the Koreans actually hires Meeke: probably Hyundai won’t be as patient as Citroen was and wait 4 and a half years to axe him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeakiwi
Meeke won rallys for Citroen where others couldn't. This weekend is the new normal for Citroen. You should be happy for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
Toyota, Ford haven't hired and fired Kris in the same way Citroen has. That seems to be what grates with his fans the most. I don't think any Meeke fan would have argued against Citroen not renewing his contract at the end of the year, if his season had continued in the way it had been of late
In any case, most of the manufacturers you mention actually make desirable cars, even the new i30n gets great reviews against the likes of a golf GTi. As I said earlier, I bet there are more rally enthusiasts that are more likely to by a Citroen van than a Citroen car, that might think twice.
Honestly I do like Meeke and still hope he can be at the WRC some years more, especially if he manages to improve his driving approach. Enought of this talk to me. Best luck to Meeke. Best luck to Citroen.
A point that Colin Clark mentioned on the kitchen table , the driver after Seb Loeb to have the most WRC wins in a Citroen is Kris Meeke , a fact that isn't a fact as Seb Ogier won more rallys in a Citroen than Meeke , but we all need to draw a line under the whole situation and move on , after all there are somethings that happen in life that we don't like however the sun will rise tomorrow again and what will be will be just accept it and move on.
Colin Clark now supports fake news ………..
Talking about facts forgotten in a sorry state of affairs, Colin Clark forgot that Ogier won more rallies with a Citroen than Meeke, although Ogier was a rather newbie to the sport at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by satnav
Thanks for the correction , I didn't check what he said was correct , seems not even Colin gets it right all the time .Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Last year with 3 cars Citroen finished Sardinia with 1 destroyed car and 9th place. This year with 2 they finished 5th and 6th all cars ok.
just when you are stating facts.. here is a few more.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
fact 1, might as well not have been at the rally. zero exposure.
fact 2 only for mikkelson, latvala, tanak technical failures they would be 8th and 9th.
fact 3 the car is atleast 0.5s per km off the pace.
fact 4 as a team, if you are happy with that performance, then you have serious problem.
Calling an opinion a fact doesn't mean its actually a fact.