Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomhlord
I wonder if French fans will see him as a betrayer if it’s him leaving first of all and making with it Citroen to leave
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Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomhlord
I wonder if French fans will see him as a betrayer if it’s him leaving first of all and making with it Citroen to leave
Not cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Sad day for WRC. And if i were to look one person to blame, i would point to Mäkinen. It baffles me how he could not keep fastest driver in fastest car with such a budget as available for him. Maybe it is because his wifes management style, maybe because Märting demanded R5 program and that broke the deal, or maybe Mäkinen underestimated Tänaks options and overestimated his own position. Other chips just follow the first - Ogiers departure makes sense as surely in TGR he has bigger chances than in Citroen. Lets now keep fingers crossed that Evans stays in M-Sport, otherwise it will be 2 team series, instead of 2,5 team series.
To me Evans to Toyota is already confirmed as much as Kalle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Indreq
According to today's news/rumours, the teams are:
Hyundai: Tänak, Neuville, Sordo/Loeb
Toyota: Ogier, Evans, Rovanperä
M-Sport: Lappi, Suninen
I would say Citroen can blame themselves, they failed to produce a winning car for whatever reason and this is the ultimate end resultQuote:
Originally Posted by Indreq
Yep. The team led by Matton fucked up badly with the designing and then development of the dog - and they've been playing catch up ever since.Quote:
Originally Posted by AMSS
Ogier will be announced as a Toyota driver on Monday:
https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/1...mes-ogier-exit
In a weird sort of way, Citroen has sacked Kris Meeke twice.
Craziest silly season ever!
This won’t be topped! Only if the news come that WRC as series is done and dusted for all
In a way, Tanak has handed Ogier the title back already imo.
Seb will win the title in the most driveable car - which the Yaris is.
Really? 64 days before Monte Carlo we are already giving titles out?
No need to get so defensive ;). Just my prediction, but if Ogier can get close in a C3 I can't look past him in a Yaris.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
To me, the season won't look that much different next year. The drivers title will be fought between Ogier, Tänak and Neuville, and the manufacturers title between Toyota and Hyundai. Evans will likely be the best of the rest, after that it may look a bit different...
There are still few rallies to go before the 2020 season is finished...Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
I'm gonna go with Fiesta-driving Lappi for that title. Oh how I wish it would happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Imagine if someone had said in Sep/Oct 2018 that the 2020 season will see Tänak and Loeb in Hyundai fighting against Ogier in Toyota... and that's just some 14 months ago.
Big shame to lose Citroen but cant blame Ogier for going to a better-funded team with the top WRC car.
It was a no-brainer once Hyundai took Tanak that Toyota had to get Ogier.
I just hope M-Sport now get a line-up to have some chance of wins against the two Asian giants.
I blame ogier last year and he couldn't give something back to the wrc he only cares about himself could have stayed or went to m sport I think he could have won with Citroen now at least 2 driver's with no where else to go money money
not defensive.Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
Ogier is always one of the favourites for the title no matter what the car. But im gonna wait for some rallies first.
Take this season for example, he had 2 wins out of first 3 rounds with that so called undriveable Citroen, and at that moment it also seemed to me that he is gonna take the title again.
But we all know what happened after that.
For me todays news is huge disapointment. It means that next season we have 9-11 factory cars in one rally. Maybe some just 8.
Quantity over quality or I just remembering those early years 2000 when rally finland had 30 A8 category cars in starting line.
And only three men can win title next year honesly. Getting boring again. Hope hybrid era will bring new manufactures. There is so many good drivers without seat now. Looks like gap year is coming...
Was it any different in 2018 or 2019 with four manufacturers? Is it worse than two-way battles? or an era where one team was miles ahead of the others?Quote:
Originally Posted by Thousandlakes
Wow! The silliest silly season I can remember! Maybe matched by VW leaving. Can't blame Ogier. Citroen did a mess of it. It will be sad to have fewer cars and one less manufacturer, but it was good while it lasted.
So we will write to history books that toxic Mia ended the brightest era of WRC...Quote:
Originally Posted by Indreq
Could be with one less manufacturer, the R5 field could be nice in 20!
I personally don't care much about that shitty team. Sorry but it's true-from 2017 onwards I mean. Shame just that two or three seats are now permanently no more.
Some of memorable moments:
2017:
-building a crappy car
-unpredictably undriveable car
-lack of testing
-no budget (despite Abu Dhabi support)
2018:
-again unpredictably undriveable car
-no listening to driver feedbacks
-sacking Meeke
-no budget despite PSA didn't run any other official programme
2019:
-running only two cars
-maybe a little better now with car since Ogier drive it, but still dissappointment
-no budget despite the most rich sponsor in the whole rallying scene
-not chosing Ostberg despite his contribution to the team for a few years.
-not giving the same support to the Lappi
-leaving the field blaming all others than themselves.
With so many years of experience and so many titles they can all go in the corner and cry a little.
At the end I can say just thank you for your little show over the years. Without them it wouldn't be funny moments.
Hopefully M-Sport would take the drivers and manufactures championship in 2020, it somehow would feel right.
some guys on twitter and estonian forum are blaming Adamo and Tänak for this
yeah right, they were the ones who pulled Citroens plug out.
Nothing changed. Same old story. Just disappointed todays news as rally fan. Rally need also quantity. Lets say 5-6 manus and three car each team. Then all the best drivers are there. Just dreaming here. Maybe hybrid era is bring them!Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Someone should call to John Elkann, at least he is motorsports fan. Maybe he could negotiate with Koreans restoring Loeb to Citroen to have a first class driver and start to chase the tenth title ;)
There are rumours just for Subaru running alongside M-Sport. If that happens it doesn't changes anything except brand
Esapekka Lappi Rally
@EsapekkaLappi
·
3h
I'm not going to lie, this is very bad news for me, for us and whole rally family. I feel sorry for the staff and the fans. But no can do.
Work has started to find other seat for next years.
Not much time but I have a good and strong team around me.
This is the current rumor situation yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
For me this is also somewhat the worst case team setup.
Toyota could definitely have one more experienced driver and use Kalle as 4th car and they should if they want to be serious about manu champs.
Msport should have one experienced driver. Lappi isn't experienced in my eyes, as he has proven on multiple rallies this year. More of a "potential" winner. Ideally they would have both Lappi, Suninen and one more driver with Greensmith only for 4th car.
The worst part about this exodus is the lack of any privateers. During the 2000's and into this decade teams like Adapta, OMV, Munchis etc filled in the gaps left by the Manus and still have room for a bunch WRC cars on the stages. Now it's nearly impossible for privateers to join and they'll all end up going to R5.
Kalle would make so much sense running in a pressure free 4th car, and Toyota could have kept Meeke/ Latvala or signed Mikkelsen etc, but the problem is Katsuta. He's Japanese and by all accounts will run in a 4th Yaris for most of the season, so Toyota running 5 cars is probably just too much of a stretch. (Unless fingers crossed, the Redbull millions could be put to additional good use).
Loeb is good , but not that good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy J
I think this was mentioned at the start of 2017; the cars were prohibitively expensive for Privateers. In fact, I seem to remember many comments back in the summer of 2016 that the new car regs weren't the panacea everybody hoped they would be.Quote:
Originally Posted by steve.mandzij
To use paraphrase a British politician; 'it's boom and bust'
anyone? https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/1...y-from-citroen
i have reached my limit this month
Sebastien Ogier has spoken exclusively to Autosport to explain his decision to leave Citroen's World Rally Championship team with a year to run on his contract.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
Citroen's cited Ogier's departure for Toyota - a deal expected to be announced next week - as the reason for its withdrawal from the WRC in an announcement made on Wednesday.
The six-time champion admitted he was surprised at the wording of Citroen's communication, but refused to comment on speculation that he first read the press release on the internet.
Ogier told Autosport: "Maybe communication hasn't always been the strongest point for Citroen..."
Citroen's exit - read for free
A sad end for a great team - and a huge blow to the WRC
He was also concerned about the message Citroen had sent to other competitors in the WRC, adding: "When they say there is no other drivers available, in this moment, I feel this is disrespectful for my colleagues in the sport."
Talking specifically about why he was leaving his second stint with Citroen early, Ogier said: "One of the main things which drove this decision was the rhythm of development on the car and the speed the car was progressing, which was not enough.
"Already this year, we could agree there wasn't enough development coming and we were down in performance against our competitors and it's not just me saying that - it's anybody who drove this car, I think, is feeling the same way."
Despite his departure and the nature of Citroen's announcement, Ogier said he had no regrets about returning to the team where he started his professional career.
"I was aware since I joined the team about the difficulty of this challenge and I was never afraid of this," he said.
"That's why, even today, I have absolutely no regrets to try this challenge, even if it failed."
Boudar at autosport.
Citroen's World Rally Championship pullout announcement had been anticipated for a week, and its statement pointed strongly towards Sebastien Ogier's decision to leave as the cause.
But was it that simple? Citroen team principal Pierre Budar spoke exclusively to Autosport about the other factors behind the move.
Were the WRC calendar, its profile or the regulations elements in Citroen's decision?
For sure it's part of the problem. It's also very important for a brand like Citroen to make sure the situation of the championship is in-line with its marketing expectation.
When you see how much we need to push for the electrification of our brand and products and the marketing we need to push these cars on sales, it's really difficult for a brand like Citroen not to focus on this and if the sporting discipline cannot help it's a real problem.
Citroen's exit - read for free
A sad end for a great team - and a huge blow to the WRC
One of our main targets is to develop in international markets; India is a major project for the brand and there is nothing on this side possible for the motorsport, this is not very good. China is the same situation.
Yes, for sure, we are not very strong when we go to the CEO to explain what we could do for the marketing of the brand when we cannot give any answers on these items - which are major items today for our marketing department. It's part of the lack of our proposal.
You were active in hybrid WRC rules meetings until recently - when was this decision taken?
Of course we had several scenarios pondering for a while and it has been decided to relaunch Peugeot in WEC. We have already DS involved in Formula E and we couldn't get a third programme and have a good level of performance with three main programmes in the same organisation.
So when the decision has been made for Peugeot somewhere [in PSA] the decision has been made for Citroen not to be involved in the hybrid WRC in 2022.
Was there ever a chance, in your opinion, that Peugeot, for example, could enter the WRC instead of the WEC?
[That] could have been a scenario also. But it has been decided to go for WEC because this programme was more online with expectation on Peugeot's side. I don't want to comment on this choice by Peugeot - I'm not in a position to do so.
Were alternative drivers - such as Andreas Mikkelsen or Craig Breen - considered?
When you want to be involved in the championship and the fight for the title then you need one of the 'big three'. So, as far as you have tried your best to get one of them and you couldn't get them then you need to do a decision. That's what we have done.
Was Citroen competitive enough to keep Ogier happy?
I am quite sure we have made a lot of progress during the year and we had a lot of ongoing development that would have been ready for Monte Carlo, but this is the problem - of course from Sebastien's point of view it would have been better to have it before and we can agree with this, but it cannot be possible.
We lost the time at the beginning of the year, but that's why we should need two years for this project because the first one was for sure a bit complicated. I am quite convinced we would have started the season in a much better position than this year.
https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/1...team-boss-view
Well, this upcoming situation makes it possible for Malcolm to hire top drivers for cheap money, that´s for sure.
If he isn´t seeing the good in this situation he has lost his business abilities.