Or more chicanes.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
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Or more chicanes.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
I don’t know if this was already discussed here in the forum. is it allowed to warn crews via radio before their start into the stage or maybe before the start time control about road conditions or tricky places?
tänaks out was at the same place where mikkelsen had problems. sordo also said something about slippery places in the narrow wood section at the stage end interview and team members are also watching tv live stages. mikkelsen was third on the raod, tänaks start time was 24 min later.
maybe a team member informs the crew about a tricky place at road book box nr. xy, were several teams before had problems and not to take maximum risk at this spot to avoid an accident.
holy shit that was amazing! thank youQuote:
Originally Posted by Priorat
Yeah. That and Methka's video remind me much of the classic Group B videos, it hasn't been like this in years...Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
yes best video till now from Poland! congrats to uploader!Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
The TV guys mentioned this on the live stage when Mikkelsen went straight on. They said the drivers waiting to run did not have team radio to warn them.Quote:
Originally Posted by bearclaw
credit to Jaanus Ree
https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...a8&oe=59DC0EBE
Some pics from Saturday https://www.facebook.com/pg/V-P-Moto...54576008231113
Friday https://www.facebook.com/pg/V-P-Moto...54576008231113
Shakedown https://www.facebook.com/pg/V-P-Moto...53701901651857
But all the crews have mobile phones, so comunication is not a problem. Just to know exact localisation of that place is little bit complicated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Lol those guys at 1:00 ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Priorat
br any news from Poland?Quote:
Originally Posted by br21
thanks for that. I missed that on the live stage. in other words it’s forbidden to communicate (via team radio or mobile phone) with the crews before the start of a stage to warn them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
I think with live gps tracking maps and a google earth-stage map for example, it should be doable for a team member (maybe a former co-driver) to locate the spot and communicate the road book box in a few minutes to the crews.Quote:
Originally Posted by br21
Was it allowed in the past though? Henning told Sordo once to call him while he was at the start to alert him of the stone he'd just hit. There's a video and everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by bearclaw
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
They obviously can read the live text on wrc.com though, so some warning they have
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl7suASGXy8
So, a report of our rally experience.
We arrived on tuesday already, so had some time to recce the stages we planned on visiting on tuesday afternoon and wednesday.
Our first WRC visit of this year, so we were curious about what to expect!
Thursday shakedown, not a bad stage. A bit more possibilities than last years shakedown. Started at the small jump, left after most of the guys passed once and slowly moved back to halfway the stage during the morning. Already clear than that the Citroën wasn't the best car there..all over the place. A lot of spectators already, nice atmosphere! We planned on visiting the showstart, but cancelled due to the storm. Than went to SS1, not much special there, but still nice to see the battles.
Friday we planned on doing 4 stages, turned out to be only 2 so not such a good day haha.
Not being able to drive the entree roads due to mud/rain, we found to get to the jumps on the first part of the stage, we decided to go to stage 3 and try again in the afternoon. Nice fast righthander where we watched every car. Tanak had the craziest pass as more times that weekend. Decided to skip stage 5 as we had to leave on this stage after about 10 cars due to the 3 minute gaps. So than settled for only 3 stages on friday, but unfortunately we were at the cancelled stage 6 than.
Again 1.5 hours or so driving to the final stage of the day, again not being able to get to the spot we wanted due to muddy access road, but found a really nice fast right/left combination to finish the day, again watched the whole field as we didnt see that much, big save of Lindholm in the Fiesta, almost binned it there! So what we saw was good, but a 14 hour day in the rain for 2 stages is a bit too much haha.
Saturday again 4 stages planned and that worked out fine! Nice weather and some excellent spots. We marked a spot close after the start of the first stage of the day, was not perfect, but made some nice photos. Than off to the 4th stage of the loop. Nice jump with directly a left and right combination after it. Some great passes, especially Tanak, Ostberg and Latvala. Moving the car exactly past the haybale that was in the left corner after landing the jump. Than back again to the same stage as we did in the morning and that was one of the best spots of the weekend. Series of so so fast bends, amazing speeds and sideways action there. Back again to the last stage, fast spot over a crest where Mikkelsen ended up in the field in the first loop. Nice action there again, left after the WRC cars due to rain starting to fall.
Sunday we did the powerstage stage 2 times. First time at the last part with the jumps, was not great. One big spectator area and jump I was on wasn't that spectacular. Than we went to the spot where Tanak crashed, nice corner but also not that great. Than the annual rush to the airport, again one of the closest arrivals we ever had for a flight, same as last year. So much traffic.
Conclusion; such an epic rally to visit. Stages are so so spectacular and easy to reach (when the weather is good). Although it doesn't seem that way when you see all the videos, we find it really quite difficult to do what we want on the stages. On the quite parts we most of the times choose for some reason the marshalls really are strict and you need to be lucky to be be able to stand on a nice spot haha. You see that on the busiers spots there are not enough marshalls and things tend to get out of control but we didnt experience that except for 1 stage.
So we are hoping it will remain on the calender, cheap to visit (6 days for 400 euro per person incl appartment, rentalcar, flight and eating/drinking) Finland at least double the money and than this is an easy pick for us haha.
Think you've seen Joost his video already. Some photos of me:
https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...33&oe=59C6075A
https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...4d&oe=59C9EAD7
https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...97&oe=5A055457
https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...85&oe=59C66496
https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...ea&oe=59CE0DFB
More at our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/pg/rallymed...93441414077157
Next WRC for us will be Germany, looking forward to it now!
Fantastic images Martijn, especially:
https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...4d&oe=59C9EAD7
Ogier photo at your post is amazing! thanks mate!!
It's very simpleQuote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Start time of 1st car at SS22 was 10:45
Latvala's stage start was 11:21
1st car enter to regroup at 11:32
So Latvala time for regroup in - 12:08
1st car to leave regroup at 12:02 and it was a 4 min interval so
2nd at 12:06
3rd at 12:10 (2 min after Latvala in) - it was very risky give him only 2min to regroup
4th and actually Latvala time for regroup out - 12:14. And 6 min for regroup for Latvala.
Standard time of regroup - 30min
fast.. https://youtu.be/6xikS0s_ouM
While that explains exactly this rally it is just technicalities due to the already planned schedule. IF the rules was fixed that Rally2 has to drive first they'd just need to take it into account in the schedule beforehand.
Pluto said there is no fixed rules for that part. Which would explain it all. Sounds a bit hard to believe that teams accept that kind of "randomness" at this level.
Neuville less sideways from these 4 .Quote:
Originally Posted by drive
WRC Sporting reg's didn't have a special note about power stage running order, but they have thisQuote:
Originally Posted by mknight
So rules approve that Latvala move but didn't describe who pick a running orderQuote:
35.2 EXIT FROM A REGROUPExcept after an overnight regroup and before the start of the Power Stage, the cars shall re-start in the orderof arrival at the regroup.
Yeah, so basically, they put him in the Power Stage at reasonably the first possible opportunity.Quote:
Originally Posted by KKS
In those conditions, I don't think this would have had a huge impact on the outcome.
Ogier: "I have never been a kamikaze behind the wheel. I have always trusted in my feeling above all else and I tend not to force things if I feel I'm not 100% in control. It was the case on those ploughed up and super slippery roads, and at times I didn't dare take those additional risks to have the optimum speed."
http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/july-...6--12-12-.html
Latvala problems
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_WcXQF5SFY
A few photos from me. In terms of safety it was worse than last year. It's quite simple, Polish spectators are very difficult to handle. Also the organization is doing very little to keep them safe. For spectating it's the best and most spectacular event, but if we're really honest, an event with this kind of organization doesn't deserve a place in WRC.
https://scontent.fbru1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...68&oe=5A07A8CF
https://scontent.fbru1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...34&oe=5A051789
https://scontent.fbru1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...03&oe=5A056261
https://scontent.fbru1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...0b&oe=59C3F583
https://scontent.fbru1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...36&oe=59D6430A
More: https://www.facebook.com/pg/rallyima...47782328566978
But it's a bit of problem here. If road position will be very bad for rally2 driver who really WANT that 5pts - he must do late at regroup-in to be as far as he want. But he didn't get a TV coverage, but who care if you want 5pts.Quote:
Originally Posted by rallyfiend
Time differences on PS are always very small. Road position difference between 4th or 6th on the road is probably negligible, but on gravel rallies there will always be huge difference between 1st and 3rd+.
That's why I find it outrageous that such an important point is not clearly defined in the rules... and even more outrageous that teams don't seem to complain loud about it. That said as far as I can see Poland is the first rally of the year where a Rally2 driver didn't go before "normal" drivers.
I disagree. This is the first rally in a long time where the images made me think, "Yes, it would be really enjoyable to be there." Not even in all areas. There were some parts where the spectators were obviously pushed way back past where they would like to be. But this sport needs to accept the fact that it is a spectator participation sport, and that is a huge part of the appeal.Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
If they can come onto the stage to help stricken cars, they should be able to stand where they want. You need to trust people to take care of themselves, and accept the consequences.
Or you can just be like the fucking awful F1 of the last few years that shelters everyone from everything and sucks all the joy out of life. Except it will be even worse than that, because we're not the pinnacle of motorsport, so we don't get the big bucks. It will be like WTCC qualifying on gravel. Is that what you all want? Because that's what you get when you keep crowing about safety.
You know why people like Group B? Because it looked dangerous, and it kind of was. A couple of people died in the few years it was running. I think, if we're honest, we'd rather all have the memories of Group B than have those people back. We're all glad that Group B existed. Anyone who isn't, really isn't a rally fan.
I am not even sure if you are serious or if I'm missing some kind of sarcasm..?
I fail to see what is exciting about a firebrigade truck going against the competitor on stage (even going in opposite direction alone is a big no no). IMHO the event shall not be part of WRC even when the stages are super exciting until the organiazion is able to handle it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnybobiche
What have you been smoking?
Trust spectators to accept the consequences? Accidents, injuries and death, yep that would work well, just ask the families left behind and drivers like Paddon and Mikkelsen and many others....
Crowing about safety? You can never, ever be too vocal about safety.
And the most stupid part of your post- "we'd rather all have the memories of Group B than have those people back"- don't know who you think "we" are but I'm pretty sure every member here, except you obviously, would rather Toivonen, Cresto and Bettega were now retired at home with their families after a successful career in rallying. Pretty sick, if you want Death Race 2000, rent a movie.
You lad, are no rally fan with thoughts like that.
Okay, you would literally prefer to have another rally driver growing old somewhere than have all the memories of Group B. Okay.
Your same kind of person would rather have a bunch of no names around than have explored the New World, or have reached the moon, or have achieved anything in life. Any time that anything requires any kind of sacrifice, fuck that, right? Because we can do it a safer way, and if we can't, it's not worth doing. Right?
That is a pathetic attitude. But worse than that, it's a hypocrite attitude, because we both know that you wouldn't give a shit about rally if you didn't have those memories of Group B, and if the drivers weren't completely insane heroes.
You people all talk real pretty, but look deep inside yourselves for about ten minutes and ask yourselves what you truly love about rally, and then ask yourselves, "Is that actually SAFE?"
And if you answer yes, then shut up, because you're goddamn liars.
Now let's break down some of this bullshit:
"I fail to see what is exciting about a firebrigade truck going against the competitor on stage (even going in opposite direction alone is a big no
no)."
Actually, that was mildly exciting to see on TV. Even though I couldn't see it on TV. I watched it on youtube like 5 times. It was a big fuck up. That's exciting. If you can't see that, I can show you a million people who can see it.
"IMHO the event shall not be part of WRC even when the stages are super exciting until the organiazion is able to handle it."
Hopefully English is not your first language, and you meant "should not" instead of "shall not". Don't worry, it's not my first language either. But I think I'm right in saying: The event should be part of WRC because the stages are super exciting, even if the organization is not able to handle it, because we are not a bunch of fucking little girls who will sue each other if we get a broken nail.
"Trust spectators to accept the consequences? Accidents, injuries and death, yep that would work well, just ask the families left behind and drivers like Paddon and Mikkelsen and many others...."
OK, so you don't trust spectators to take care of themselves? You don't trust people to take care of themselves? They're too stupid to take care of themselves? They need someone smart like you, or Jean Todt, to take care of them because they're too stupid to make wise decisions? OK.
I mean, what? OK Paddon and Mikkelsen killed two people in the last like 10 years of rallying, and one or two more killed their co drivers. What, does that mean we shouldn't have rally any more? I know what you're going to say. Because you're a hypocrite, you're going to say, "Of course we should have rally, but we should try our hardest to avoid this in the future" Guess what. Trying your hardest to avoid it in the future means not having any more rally. That is the hardest you can try, and I guarantee that will avoid this in the future. But you aren't willing to do that, are you, hypocrite?
"Crowing about safety? You can never, ever be too vocal about safety. "
OK, here's me being too vocal about safety: We shouldn't allow any spectators. They shouldn't be allowed to touch the cars. They shouldn't be allowed to step onto the track in any way. They shouldn't be allowed to help out the drivers. It should be like F1. Actually it should be tougher than F1. Everyone should stay at home and the drivers should drive on roads closed to everyone. Even cameramen. In fact the drivers themselves shouldnt be exposed to danger, they should drive remote controlled cars through Richard Burns Rally and everyone should watch from home through WRC+.
Is that not too vocal about safety? Goddamn people don't actually think about what they're saying. Take a fucking philosophy class or something. Learn to think. Do better than our FIA masters. Motorsport is INHERENTLY dangerous. There is no amount or version of motorsport that is as safe as not doing motorsport. Therefore any motorsport fan is a fan of some amount of danger. You people think you're right because you're nice. But nice isn't always right. Sometimes it's wrong, and harmful to what you actually love. Learn that.
Group B wrote great stories of legends past, and as you say, a lot of it had to do with the danger and accidents. It wouldnt have been the legend it is today with out them.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnybobiche
But the consequences of the accidents in Group B could have easily been avoided. There was no need for the cars to catch fire after crashing. There was no need for absolutely no crowd control.
Group B was spectacular, but it was not sustainable, and the consequence was that it was banned after only two "real" years.
WRC 2017 is a big step in the right direction for rallying, and the stuff of legends, but lets keep it sustainable by avoiding unnessesary risk. Either for competitor or for spectators.
This year, especially thanks to "Test Pilot" Kris Meeke, we can see that the cars are safe enough for their crew.
But with out taking away to much from the fan experience, we must see to it that the spectators are not put at an unacceptable level of risk.
From my point of view, Rally Poland is above what is acceptable for the spectators. Poor crowd control combined with stages in open fields with no natural barriers (like the trees of Finland or the snow and trees in Sweden) are a big challenge.
On top of that there are too many safety glitches. (If you think sending fire trucks in to a live stage, on top of that in the wron direction, is a good way to get some excitement in to the sport, I can say that we have a great difference of opinion)
If those safety glitches, and the poor crowd controll is kept going, a big accident with bad consequenses is going to happen, and the sport will suffer. Like it did in the Group B days.
Rally Poland may be on the verge of being axed as a round of the WRC amid safety concerns at last week's event.. https://t.co/L3ididto75 https://t.co/GnCD2Ic7o8
Look! Rally Poland makes people happy! :)
https://www.facebook.com/rallyemag/v...5548749784973/
Anyone watch Paddons facebook live Q and A session? He made some interesting comments about how it looks fast from the outside but inside he said it actually feels a little sedate in Poland due to the relatively sticky surface. He said Finland feels faster due to the gravel surface being different. He also said the difference between last years cars and now is the corner speed not absolute speed due to the changes in down-force. I thought his most interesting comment was about being more comfortable on a high speed 6th gear corner than a slow 2nd gear corner due to the braking point.
Well worth a watch as he was making some interesting comments.
This is spot on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
As someone who was there, the excitement of Group B was all about the amazing CARS and the brilliant DRIVER'S.
It had nothing to do with danger or crazy idiots standing by the roads.
Safe crowds and cars that protected the driver's would have let it continue.
Not even NOT can spew out such shit like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnybobiche
If you don't care about spectator safety you are not a rally fan, because thanks to spectators who couldn't take care of themselves your beloved Group B was banned. If people don't take the same precautions now then we won't have rally at all. That's not what you want, unless, that is, you don't really like rally.
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
Looking at some of the average speeds on some of the Rally Poland stages - the speeds are probably starting to get too high again. 125km/h averages on dirt
Are there any estimates on Rally Finland speeds?
I would expect the cars wrc and r5 to be be power reduced next season.