yes they are pretty fast at dry asphalt.
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yes they are pretty fast at dry asphalt.
Looking good.
Well, miracles don't happen. 22 minutes off the fastest Rally2 for the best Alpine (Guigou) in Monte Carlo.
It´s still progress, usually GT is slower than Rally4... LOL ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Still, the GT cars are nice to watch. When a good driver throw an Alpine around it is fun both in the car, and outside.
would like to see a gravel kit for the A110.
On snow it's more a suffering. If you compare with 4WD cars it's like slow motion.
I am comparing with old 2wd Escorts, BMW M3 and Volvos that I am guessing is double the price of an Alpine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Would be nice with a Legend series using Alpine as a support class in a few euro rounds, maybe also a F1 driver here and there. All paid by Alpine. They need to promote!
A 2021 car shall not compare itself with 1975 car...
and 2wd shall not compare with 4! : )Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
That's hardly a surprise, considering the rally conditions. Anyway, hats off to all the brave Alpine crews on this Monte.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Best of Alpine A110 RGT in Rallye Monte Carlo 2021 by RivieraRallyNet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV2PFI7Xtv4
Just some quick questions
What is the purpose of the RGT class, who do you see as the typical buyer/driver?
What kind of tempo speedwise on dry asphalt should a RGT car with a top driver manage?
- Same as Rally4
- Quicker than Rally4
- Between Rally3 and Rally2
For what reason? 2WD cars can be faster than 4WD and often they are. It's only about the exact spec. and rules not about being 2WD per se (see Dakar).Quote:
Originally Posted by wyler
The issue with GT cars is that they represent premium brands and rather expensive, yet hardly faster than an uptuned shopping bag called Rally4/R2. Comparing the investment in them with R5 cars is quite natural because in terms of money there's not much difference.
God knows because with the existing rules they are basically just a tool for fun for a few enthusiasts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Depends a lot on the stages. If dry and slowing uphill road, they can challenge Rally2 cars (see results Mont-Blanc 2020). For sure it's quicker than a Rally4 on any conditions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Well, no. We have yet to see any RGT to defeat R2/Rally4 on Barum for example :)Quote:
Originally Posted by dupanton
If you meant specifically Alpine and not the whole RGT class than it might be true. We'll see (hopefully) in summer :)
Always quicker than rally4.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
But when it comes to comparing it to 4x4 cars it depends on the stages. As long as its dry asphalt they should be able to beat rally3 and even match rally2 on certain stages.
On wide flowing stages like spain they could do very well.
That simply isn't true. There are plenty of events where Rally4 have been faster than RGT.Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
The allegedly main field for RGT is supposed to be the ERC, yet RGT in 2020 didn't beat Rally4 in a single ERC rally! They lost by 17 minutes in Hungary, by 9 minutes in Rome and by 3 minutes on Canarias.
Don't compare Alpine with Abarth, neither the drivers of Alpine (Robert, Astier, Guigou) with Abarth ones ;) Wait some more rallies.
Astier did ERC last year and the question was about RGT, not about Alpine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira
True, but speaking of rally exact spec. and rules, maybe they'll compare to rally3, as for now, they don't really do with 4wd unless in some particular condition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Hard to compare anything to Rally3 as no such car homologated and really nobody knows their speed...
On dry tarmac GTs are faster than Rally4, on very slippery not, as at least Alpine non stop on traction-control there.
I heard the Rally4 will get weight added to not be faster than Rally3?
See Rally4 thread. The changes were discussed there. It's not radical, they only leveled the weight of Rally4 cars to the same limit which already applied for some cars like Peugeot (1080 kg). Prior it was depending on the engine volume (Fiesta had 50 kg lesser limit than Peugeot with larger engine).Quote:
Originally Posted by SubaruNorway
You have to compare the drivers as well. An Alpine with a top driver vs the ERC Junior RC4 cars, the Alpine will always win imo. Even in Barum or in wet conditions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Even in Monte Carlo, the first Alpine has beaten the first Rally4 by 7,5min! And Latil isn't a bad driver at all.
As I said Alpine =/= RGT class. Alpine may set better ERC record but we have to wait for that (I believe it will thanks to it's mid-engine design). So far RGT cars have been slower than Rally4 in nearly all ERC events even with Astier or Nucita driving.Quote:
Originally Posted by dupanton
When you've mentioned Nucita, two rallies in Slovenia came to my mind as he was participating it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
First was Rally Vipava 2018, the whole event was in a sunny and dry conditions (I know as I was also a copilot on this event). Nucita did not have any troubles beating local drivers in R2 cars (and especially Humar and Novak are very fast local drivers)
https://www.ewrc-results.com/results...2018/?s=175356
Second rally, at the end of the season Rally Idrija was held in a heavy rain (it was already on the verge of regularity) and Nucita again beat R2 drivers.
https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/4...y-idrija-2018/
So to say that RGT cars are generally slower than R2 (Rally4) is not justified.
I didn't say that. I have reacted to a statement that RGT is always faster than Rally4. Just look at the previous page.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ucci
We will have more chances for comparisons, because Abarth Rally Cup will continue as part of the European Championship in 2021. Hopefully we will see some Alpines in ERC as well.
https://www.fiaerc.com/fia-erc-based...ction-in-2021/
There is a plan for some Alpine drivers to compete in ERC. Their biggest problem is that Alpine doesnt have gravel suspension.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
I´m very interested to see modern RWD on gravelQuote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
Probably slow but could look great ;)
Abarths were competing on gravel last year. But in the final only on fast gravel in Liepaja.Quote:
Originally Posted by pantealex
There are events where rally4 has been faster than rally2 or wrc cars, but that doesn't make it rule.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Rgt cars are faster than rally4 cars. If they are still being beaten then its up to the drivers.
You can find them online, but I don't think you will find it very spectacular.Quote:
Originally Posted by pantealex
Rally Poland:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABEOVqnamf4
Rally Liepaja:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0MhomIfTj8
I reacted on the statement that RGT are always faster. They are not. Period. There were already several seasons of RGT cups in the ERC yet you have to search really hard to find an RGT car in front of an R2/Rally4 in finish of any of the events. In 2020 there was none in the whole season despite attempts by good drivers.Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
I see the RGT cars as a car first and foremost for gentleman drivers, and drivers that did not make the top level, but still want to drive for fun. Sometimes it is better to leave RC2 so you dont have to be measured to the best in every rally you do.
The GT cars, being 2wd and not having the same suspension travel as a car made for rally from the drawing board, will be only fighting amongst themselves.
Think of getting a sponsor package together, that makes it interesting for legend drivers to came back in the sport in a RGT. Getting Loeb, some Solbergs, Hirvonen, Meeke, and so on.
Would be great to see the slide, play and enjoy the rallies, and show us car control in good looking rally cars!
In some rallies they might be on par with Rally4, in others might be closer to a Rally2 car. But that is not the point, they fight eachother, and entertain us!
Sulland, building castles in clouds don't help.
RGT rules in essence offer cars which are too difficult to drive for gentleman drivers to achieve any results but don't attract anyone else because driving them doesn't propel anyone's career, i.e. they spiral in a vicious circle from which they effectively can not break away.
Sure the Abarth and especially the Alpine offer an attempt to approach the RGT from another angle - to build small, light and nimble car instead of the overpowered heavy monsters which failed before (but even that was attempted before with Lotus but everybody forgot already). They offer a glimpse of hope but not much more because the reality is cruel - Abarth production ended and the cars live only by inertia, Porsche found out that it makes no sense so they stopped their Cayman project before it got even homologated. It means that Alpine is alone and likely will stay so. It can be (and most likely is) faster and better than any other RGT cars before but it is alone. A one-eyed king among the blind.
You know I have been a very vocal critic of the RGTs. Color me surprised because this is actually something worth appreciation!
https://www.ewrc-results.com/results...te-dazur-2021/
Wow, that really is something!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
The Dirtfish story about Nicolas Ciamin winning the Antibes Rally with an Alpine A110 Rally RGT.
https://dirtfish.com/rally/the-drive...ait-for-a-win/
Very good drive by Alpine drivers at Monaco.
Espesially up the snowstage 13, sorry no tv from that.