Like I’ve said, always read the press conf transcript and ignore all articles in the next few days. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Indreq
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Like I’ve said, always read the press conf transcript and ignore all articles in the next few days. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Indreq
The mindset is for sure not finnish mindset. Would´ve been helped within 45 secs..Quote:
Originally Posted by meh
UK Rally spectators used to be exactly the same, I’ve helped push/pull/roll many a car back onto the road over the years, but ever since the safety mindset went crazy after Sainz hit the spectators in his Focus, it has been actively discouraged. And honestly I don’t know how many fans from before that time are still around...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
The #1 safety issue in Finnish rallying today: the spectators literally running after the crashing cars, making no effort to check whether there's another car coming by. Please do not imitate that.Quote:
Originally Posted by meh
The group of spectators in the background are behind a barbed wire fence, so not the easiest job to climb it and then head towards the car - you can see some of them move out of shot to run towards a gap in the fence I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by meh
Hi all
some photos of my 1st Wales Rally : https://flic.kr/s/aHsmHyEZUP
I've been dreaming of this rally for...I don't know, 30 years ? :)
Attachment 1869
Attachment 1870
Attachment 1871
Attachment 1872
Attachment 1873
The action, the landscapes, the organization, everything was top level.
I've met dozens of very nice people, including the best marshalls I've ever met in rallying !
Hi all!
I created a spectator kinda view video of the rally. check it out if you like :) cheers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dqj9...83_4nGHRKPyYfP
Attachment 1874
Couple of days late but some photos of the rally. I think I've been to watch events in 12 different countries but still so much passion for this 'home' rally. Maybe only two rounds in the championship for me next year, let's see.
Photos here if you are interested: https://www.flickr.com/photos/949985...57711260476512
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...12e9c12d_c.jpg1 by Richard Simpson, on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...dc63c1b6_c.jpg2 by Richard Simpson, on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...b80aac9a_c.jpg13 by Richard Simpson, on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...44758b28_c.jpg5 by Richard Simpson, on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...2fc7caa5_c.jpg7 by Richard Simpson, on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...269a9885_c.jpg8 by Richard Simpson, on Flickr
Oh yes it does!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mintexmemory
They didn't just turn up in NI out of the goodness of their heart!
There was indeed a large payment made: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-49117736
All major events need taxpayer support. Otherwise they just go elsewhere...
Quote:
Originally Posted by meh
to be fair, Thread: Ott Tänak - Future champion? is like from the year 2011, just saying :)
Kopecký from the other side: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94dsOxTWj88
unlucky slow speed roll.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Really good selection of photos, Simmi - the exposure and lighting is very impressive. Our paths seem to have crossed in shakedown and Hafren too. Unfortunately my camera was playing up more and more as the event went on, so my photos are a mixed bunch. I'll post some next week, once I'm back from Mull.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmi
Come on, the C3 has had big issues since day one. If Ogier was still in an M-Sport Ford would Tanak be running away with the title to the same extent ?Quote:
Originally Posted by gorganl2000
Was your question your opinion? We don't know the answer, and we never will. In big picture I agree with gorganl2000.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
I do think that Tänak is better in setting up car than Ogier. Tänak learned a lot from Ogier in M-Sport, but I also think, that Ogier benefited a lot because Tänak developed/provided good setup for that car. This is again - just an opinion, not the clear and only truth.
well theres some truth in it, anyone who has watched the Tänak Movie, has seen that there is a clip where Wilson says when Ogier arrived at the team, he demanded that he is the first one on tests to test the car, but later on when he found out that Ott is very good at testing and setting up the car, Ogier changed his opinion and started testing after Tänak.
Anyone provide the text for this ?
https://www.autosport.com/wrc/featur...amped-rally-gb
Mostly just criticism about bad arrangements in the service park, oddly timed visits to service park and Liverpool, and worries about the quality and success of the event in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Well Tanak was in the 2017 Fiesta WRC testing and developing it from well before Ogier even signed for M-Sport...Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
https://d2d0b2rxqzh1q5.cloudfront.ne...a54bd66922.jpg
https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/1...ssing-in-tests
https://youtu.be/Lw75ir0lf9w
Didn't Tanak also work as a mechanic back in the day?
Of course we know that. But when Ogier, the champ, arrived in the team he demanded things like testing first or getting new parts first to his car. And in 2018 he took most of the testing days, all Evans and Suninen could do was to fine tune his setup. It's a big sign of trust that he did let Tänak do the basic testing and continue from that.
Given the ridiculous way Motorsport Network have gone about killing off the Autosport magazine, as a subscriber I no longer have any qualms about sharing their content...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Quote:
Citroen team principal Pierre Budar didn't look quite ready for a Saturday night shaking it down at Broadway Boulevard. Which is a shame, given that he spent the larger part of last week right on the doorstep of Llandudno's number one nightclub.
It's fair to say Budar didn't see Citroen's next-to-a-nightclub location in Rally GB's new home as a selling point.
It did, in fact, make him cross. Very cross, which was understandable. Citroen and its six-time World Rally champion Sebastien Ogier were hidden away in the service park when Rally GB moved to Llandudno last week.
There was, unfortunately, very little alternative.
Moving the event north out of Cardiff saved its very existence in 2013 and the Deeside service park used until last year was a means to that end.
But Deeside was never the long-term answer. A wide expanse of open space next to a car factory on an industrial estate within spitting distance of the English-Welsh border almost made a few folk clamour for a return to Rally GB's sometime Swansea base in Felindre. Well, almost...
Lots of noise was made about significant change being brought in for this year's Rally GB route. Even more noise was made about last week being 'A World Apart' - the chosen marketing slogan.
Beneath that fluff the guts of the route remained pretty much identical - utilising the very best woods in the middle and north of Wales. The changes actually involved taking the start to Liverpool and the service park to Llandudno, with the addition of an Oulton Park stage as a Thursday night loosener along the way.
Putting the WRC into Llandudno was a square peg and round hole situation. But even with much chiseling from service park maestros Steve Cridge and Alun Pritchard, the thing still didn't fit.
M-Sport and Toyota were in the car park of the town's swimming pool, Hyundai was next door in the coach park and Citroen was round the corner in... well, we know where Citroen was. The town's foremost nightspot.
So, what about the seafront, the prime service park real estate? That went to the privateers, the national runners, WRC 2 and the Junior cars.
To the uninitiated, that made absolutely no sense. What the heck were Cridge and Pritchard thinking? OK, Skoda, the Solbergs and the JWRC village brought a chunk of cool to the promenade, but some sections were very much more national clubman rally championship than WRC. Personally, I loved being able to watch the amateurs' army land rovers being sledgehammered-back into roadworthiness, but this wasn't necessarily the vision of world championship-standard service park punters had expected.
But unfortunately, the seafront simply wasn't wide enough to accommodate the manufacturer service areas. Cridge and Pritchard had no choice but to put the big guns elsewhere.
During the event, tongues were held and people made do. But, since Sunday, I've been surprised by the strength of the anti-GB backlash. In the eyes of the WRC's stakeholders, Rally GB was not good enough. One official within the governing body told me: "It's [gone] back 15 years."
Hmm, not sure I'd go back that far, but certainly Llandudno wasn't exactly what we'd hoped for. Motorsport UK CEO Hugh Chambers described the move as a step in the right direction, and I'd agree with that.
In fact, the whole service park agreed with that. The philosophy of the job was absolutely right. Taking rallying to the people is a drum that's been banged for a very long time. But, here's the thing: what's the point of taking the service park to the people, only to run service when there are no people around?
Friday at midday was the only sensible service time on last week's itinerary. Saturday, the manufacturers cried out, was the perfect lunchtime appointment for the cars in town. In all honesty, the families and folk the event had come to Llandudno to entertain were probably in bed at 0540 when the cars came in for morning service. And, quite likely to be bound for Broadway Boulevard when they returned 14 hours later. Where were the WRC stars at lunchtime? Newtown.
Route co-ordinator Andrew Kellitt and clerk of the course Iain Campbell have my sympathy here. Saturday is the busiest day for punters and Dyfi and Sweet Lamb are the stages that can take the most spectators. But if the rally goes there to satisfy the hardcore, it makes it very difficult to get back to Llandudno to do something for the wider population in the middle of the day.
My sympathy for those on the sporting side of the event was shared universally between the WRC stakeholders.
Returning to Chambers' suggestion of a step in the right direction. I'm afraid there's very little room for mere 'steps' these days when it comes to the WRC calendar.
When events as efficient as Rally Spain are being lost from next year's schedule (Yes, there will be rotation, it's back in 2021 - but Salou's not on the list next year) and Germany appears bound to be dropped in '21, steps just don't cut it.
WRC Promoter will not tolerate this next season - wherever Rally GB ends up. Sources within the organisation told me in no uncertain terms that Rally GB's standing has slipped as low as it was in 2012. That's bad.
For the first couple of calls from disgruntled WRC folk, I stoutly defended Rally GB. And Llandudno. And when mention of the cancellation of the Great Orme stage - because safety divers couldn't get close because of rough seas near the route - came up, I pointed out the dangers of the swell beneath the surface. A swell that would have clattered the divers against the rocks.
But what I couldn't defend was the treatment of spectators on Sunday. The organisers told folk they could take their Orme tickets to the Brenig stage and get in there for free.
Here's one fan's experience: "We got up on the Orme early and walked for an hour to find an amazing place. We saw Esapekka Lappi come by at about 10mph, found out the stage was cancelled and walked the hour back.
"We then queued for half an hour to get off the Great Orme, drove an hour to Brenig, only to be told we weren't allowed in. But we could park the car and walk for another hour to the stage. Instead, we drove back to Llandudno to watch the finish, couldn't find anywhere to park, and when we finally got to the podium, we couldn't see a thing anyway.
"We won't be coming back."
Ouch.
...Quote:
One stage Chambers holds up as a beacon of accomplishment is Oulton Park. And he's not wrong. It was superb. It sold out and delivered a great atmosphere. But shouldn't that credit be bound for circuit owner Jonathan Palmer and MotorSport Vision? Granted, there was no end of Motorsport UK input, but it was the MSV infrastructure that made it fly.
It would be great to see Oulton back next year, but if we go back to Liverpool, the event simply can't go there without a superspecial stage in the city.
Talking of Liverpool, last week was a case of right place, wrong time. Rally cars rolling onto the city's waterfront between 3pm and 4pm on a Thursday was, undoubtedly a source of much frustration to the office workers looking down from their desks. If the £200,000 needed to run a superspecial in Liverpool can't be found, then let's not bother having a token presence there.
Chambers has acknowledged this and is on the case, which is good. But, the more digging I did and the more calls I made, the more concerned I became about last week.
The last line of my defence of the event was to point out how much GB had evolved since 2013 and how much the administration had listened, taken criticism onboard and moved forward with it.
That brings me to quite possibly the biggest concern. Since former Rally GB managing director Ben Taylor's exit, it seems there's very little goodwill towards UK motorsport's governing body from the rallying world.
I walked the service parks - national and WRC - to gauge opinion last week and the overriding adjectives offered regarding UK motorsport chiefs wouldn't make for great reading.
The objects of such criticism may well blame Autosport for spreading negativity. In fairness, there's been no criticism of the event in the national media. As far as I could see, the event largely passed national newspapers by - although The Daily Telegraph did manage to squeeze the results of the event in between American ice hockey and the US Open Squash in Philadelphia.
And the objects of my criticism could point me in the direction of packed car parks and ticket sales 50% up on last year. That's a great achievement. But, as one of the organisers said: "Petter Solberg won't be there to save us next season."
The hike in sales when Solberg announced his participation spoke volumes. As did the movement of spectators out of stages once the 2003 world champion had passed by.
Now, I fully expect to be ostracised by some (again) for voicing an opinion shared by the WRC stakeholders, not to mention legions of fans and competitors out there.
I don't care. Call me a trouble-causer, call me what you want. But once you've done that, take a look in the mirror. And don't even think about a communal burying of heads in the sand.
Without getting all leftie, Rally GB doesn't belong to any individual in the UK motorsport hierarchy. It belongs to the thousands of rally fans out there. And we owe it to those people to make sure any steps we take are very big ones. Let's look for leaps - leaps would be good here.
Frustratingly, I've got all the way down here and I haven't even had time to talk about the increasingly toxic atmosphere among the teams, an atmosphere that is unnecessary and far from conducive to driving the world championship forward. But there's plenty of time, we'll come to that soon enough.
Like we'll come to the Rally GB sums and the challenge of balancing the books with diminishing investment from Wales and growing bills from WRC Promoter. Look out for rudimentary rally economics in the coming weeks.
For now, am I too late for last orders at the Broadway Boulevard? Pint, Pierre?
Some big points there and I have to agree with most of them.
Bringing the sport to the people is crucial for the future. How you can get so close to the cars and drivers is great and should be a way the sport can be grown. Pictures from the SP and other places where the fans can get close should be shared more and I'm sure more people would come to see them and hopefully start to follow the sport...
https://i.imgur.com/Zj0IfGB.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/UQS2Gh8.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/UUUtWL7.jpg
[img]https://i.imgur.com/uE7yZZM.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ckEtFt0.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/7YdWqZ7.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Q51q3Kg.jpg
Unpopular view; What does the WRC, teams, manufacturers, etc get out of their visit to the UK? Would they be really disappointed if it was dropped?
It comes and goes without much fanfare - and is pretty much ignored by mainstream media. There must be other countries were their media would be all over a WRC event. And Manufacturers are in the sport primarily to sell cars - and for that they need publicity.
Two points:
1 - Wales won't/ can't continue to back the event - they've bankrolled it since 2003, that's a good run; that nobody else has been willing to step in is an indictment on the sport & event.
2 - With the restrictive route regs, the organisers hands are tied with what they can do with regards to service park and stages used.
Other than Estonia and Belgium, I don't imagine there are many countries where there will be great mainstream media engagement that don't already have a WRC round (like Finland) or are already set to get one (Kenya, maybe Japan or NZ?).Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
If anything I'd say this Rally GB actually proves that there is still a market for rallying in this country. It amazes me that so many tens of thousands of people make the effort we do to watch this sport. I totally understand why a few hardcore fans like us on here get up at 4:30am and finish the day after 9pm, day after day, in the rain, many being ripped off by MSUK, but there were loads of people up for this. What other sport demands so much of spectators? There's still an audience here, but it's poorly served. To me, this is as much if not more the fault of WRC Promoter for failing to get better broadcast deals for the sport here.
The comparisons with the end of the south Wales era are poor to me, because to me there are clearly far more spectators out on the stages now then there were in the 'dark days' of the end of the south Wales era, when the numbers had vastly dropped.
The end of the South Wales era coincided with the low in the WRC in general really. The Championship started to gain momentum from the 2011 regs onwards, and 2011 was the first foray back to the North, 2012 went back south for whatever reason, and then from 2013 we were back up North and the Championship was making ground as whole.Quote:
Originally Posted by the sniper
Also it felt a bit stale down South by that point, we had been going to the same stages over and over for 10 years or so, and it was getting a bit boring honestly, and it’s starting to go that way again, it needs freshening up.
They have tried to introduce some new stages, but Gwydir and Elsi are crap frankly, Elsi in particular.
which driver is at the first pass?
https://youtu.be/D2nQDuHm1k4
its Mikkelsen
There's no doubt that Tanak did a good job with the Fiesta and is a huge factor in the Yaris improvement but you shouldn't diminish Ogier set-up skills as he developed the Polo almost from scratch, was able to rapidly adapt the Fiesta to his driving style and is helping to turn the worst car of the series into a winner.Quote:
Originally Posted by meh
I don't have any information how big was Ogier's role on building Polo. Could Polo be different (worse) car without Ogier? I have no idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
Ogier must have good understanding how to set-up car. No doubt about that. 6 titles didn't just fall to his lap.
Are those as good as Tänak, who have been working as mechanic and can talk "their language"? I also don't know that answer, but for me it seems, that Tänak can be better in that.
Huge; the car was initially developed by Sainz but Loeb did most of the testing work before the car homologation. FX Demaison, VW Motorsport tech chief, said several times that Ogier was always pushing for more improvements and his views were fundamental to make the car more competitive through the seasons. Mr. Wilson said the same about the Fiesta and so is now Budar saying on the C3. Btw, Loeb also didn’t had mechanic or engineer background and that didn’t prevent him to help developing winning rally cars or getting a proper set-up.Quote:
Originally Posted by meh
I always believed that in Loeb's times the main development drivers of Citroën was Bugalski.
I think there is some confusion between the Sebs in Rally Power's post.
I think they gave Meeke a lot of credit for his work on the C4 too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Yeah we saw that one. One of the most succesful car in WRC history with many titles won. And then sacket by the few bad results with C3.Quote:
Originally Posted by T16
Bit belated (especially as I didn't actually take that many pictures!), but just uploaded a few photos from Myherin. Some of my faves...
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...e4709ab7_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...03b4acab_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...57b9f291_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...57b3dd57_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...f547ce3c_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...6f9c5ca2_b.jpg
...more here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/229616...57711360717498
If anyone is interested!
Nice to hear Julan Porter on todays AR podcast totally agree with me that the Oulton Park stage should've been run in the daylight... even if just the top 20 cars. Great for the fans and TV audience and could've started at 5pm not 7pm.
As it was he confirmed it was so dark (and wet) that all the poor spectators could see were a set of spotlights.
We really need to showcase the WRC and this isnt a good way to do it.