[WRC] Rally Estonia 15-18 July 2021

I looked at the power stage again and thought that maybe we'll see Rally2 cars getting power stage points? It's a very narrow and twisty stage with nothing where the WRC cars can take advantage of their excessive power (with so low grip on a soft road) or aero (all low-speed corners), but they are instead struggling on the tight turns with their center diff. The average speeds on this stage will be very low, something like 70 km/h maybe?

I'm still amazed FIA and WRC Promotoer has accepted this stage as power stage.

I think you are reaching a little. New part is faster than old one and I have seen that they are watering the stage frequently. Aava himself said if some rain comes before the rally then everything should be fine. It will make that fine gravel rock hard.

I think PS winner should average 80kmh.

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Originally Posted by Tauri_J

I think you are reaching a little. New part is faster than old one and I have seen that they are watering the stage frequently. Aava himself said if some rain comes before the rally then everything should be fine. It will make that fine gravel rock hard.

I think PS winner should average 80kmh.

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What do you mean with old and new?

I mean the new powerstage. It consists last year's micke mouse stage(59,8 kmh) and this years new section. Obviously its narrow and twisty but they should average over 80kmh. Just my opinion so I could be wrong.

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Originally Posted by Tauri_J

I mean the new powerstage. It consists last year's micke mouse stage(59,8 kmh) and this years new section. Obviously its narrow and twisty but they should average over 80kmh. Just my opinion so I could be wrong.

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Yes, but even the "old" section, the super special, is almost completely new from last year.

This year's power stage will contain 13 hairpins and 17 square corners. In six kilometres. Even on wide tarmac that would be slow. The longest straights are 300 and 200 metres long.

It actually gets wider once it joins the super special. And at the same time I have to admit I was surprised last year how slow the super special was in the end!

SS10, the first one on Saturday

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6JvKb-X...jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6JvLXVX...jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6JvMzOX...jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6JvOvkX...jpg&name=large


SS11

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6J6qc3X...jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6J6rfNW...jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6J6sYqW...jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6J6tlwW...jpg&name=large



all credit goes to this link https://twitter.com/HartusvuoriWRC/s...420670977?s=20
https://twitter.com/HartusvuoriWRC/s...343662595?s=20

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Originally Posted by AnttiL

I'm still amazed FIA and WRC Promotoer has accepted this stage as power stage.

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I seem to recall there was something in the sporting rules saying the PS should have the same character as the rally. But as you say in the end it's down to FIA and promoter accepting it.

Wonder if some drives/teams do some very special setups for it compromising rest of Sunday. But on a rally like this differences are often small so it might be risky for anyone who is not in superrally.

Not sure about Rally2 cars doing well. Sure they likely won't have many disadvantages, but can't see that many advantages either since it likely won't be crazy narrow between concrete blocks like that famous 2017 germany stage.

I think that was at Wales Rally GB, when Great Orme was to be power stage. That was totally different from other stages because it was on tarmac. At least here, we still on gravel.

Kristian Sohlberg
@Krisse_Sohlberg
Interesting SS10/14 in @RallyEstonia
Mostly very narrow, starts more technical, a just over 1km highway section after 16km, back to narrow. A similar section towards the end before narrows again. Very nice and difficult stage. Lots of artificial cutstoppers. Lots of loose #wrc

https://twitter.com/Krisse_Sohlberg/...745844237?s=20

Seems like a better road selection than 2020. Interested to watch it, but this time I will watch it at home.

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I'm struggling to decide to go or to watch from home as well. Probably final decision on Friday.

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Originally Posted by cali

Seems like a better road selection than 2020.

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They are using like 90% of last year's roads, but in different configurations, and Kanepi is reversed. There are four completely new stages, since the rally is now normal length compared to last year's shortened version.

But I agree, the stages are good, there's a good mix of fast and slow, and there are difficult sections.

SS10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np5fMl9OI00
SS11 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMVrNzEm6BQ


but not fully, parts skipped

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Originally Posted by EstWRC

SS10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np5fMl9OI00
SS11 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMVrNzEm6BQ


but not fully, parts skipped

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Both videos were linked on my blog. The GoPro fisheye effect takes out all the visual information from the video, all corners are straightened and crests flattened. But at least you see what kind of roads the stages contain.

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Originally Posted by AnttiL

They are using like 90% of last year's roads, but in different configurations, and Kanepi is reversed. There are four completely new stages, since the rally is now normal length compared to last year's shortened version.

But I agree, the stages are good, there's a good mix of fast and slow, and there are difficult sections.

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That's what I meant in nutshell, yes

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by AnttiL

Both videos were linked on my blog. The GoPro fisheye effect takes out all the visual information from the video, all corners are straightened and crests flattened. But at least you see what kind of roads the stages contain.

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havent had the time to look your blog yet.

but agreed, the camera always takes the effects away....every year we recce some of the stages in Rally Finland and its totally different compared to onboard vids, you have goosebumps when driving them, same for Estonia when i last time recced some stages in 2019 but from the vids it seems its nothing special

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6LX7eNX...jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6LX_IzW...jpg&name=large


credit https://twitter.com/HartusvuoriWRC/s...204662786?s=20

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Originally Posted by cali

Seems like a better road selection than 2020. Interested to watch it, but this time I will watch it at home.

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i had the same plan but in the end my friends really convinced me, so i gave up and agreed but i already regret it.

maybe many people here are wondering why we talk like that after we got the wrc round to our home. the problem is Aava and co-s stupidity with the spectator system and places. The places are just so so so boring and people want to choose the stages and spectating places themselves. I really hope the other rallies wont start copying this system, especially Rally Finland.

Besides that, you cant even bring your own food and water to the stage, they made an exception this year with the water because of the heatwave but as i understand you can only bring a little bottle. In Rally Finland you can bring basically anything to the stage side, i mean food and drink wise, guys barbecuing sausages there or making an egg or coffee in the morning with the gas grill and etc.

and we have to pay 80 euros for this. The ticket sale is mildly said shit this year, last year all the tickets (15 000) were sold in one day! This year the tickets came on sale on 4th of June and so far only 3 different passes (out of 15) have been sold out. So i guess many people had enough after seeing how the system worked last year and they decided this year they dont want it.

Interesting to see if they will change something or not after this year with not such a good ticket sale but i really doubt as long as they get big money from the government.

Im really happy that we got our WRC round, it has always been a dream for me, but this spectating system just doesnt work.

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Originally Posted by EstWRC

i had the same plan but in the end my friends really convinced me, so i gave up and agreed but i already regret it.

maybe many people here are wondering why we talk like that after we got the wrc round to our home. the problem is Aava and co-s stupidity with the spectator system and places. The places are just so so so boring and people want to choose the stages and spectating places themselves. I really hope the other rallies wont start copying this system, especially Rally Finland.

Besides that, you cant even bring your own food and water to the stage, they made an exception this year with the water because of the heatwave but as i understand you can only bring a little bottle. In Rally Finland you can bring basically anything to the stage side, i mean food and drink wise, guys barbecuing sausages there or making an egg or coffee in the morning with the gas grill and etc.

and we have to pay 80 euros for this. The ticket sale is mildly said shit this year, last year all the tickets (15 000) were sold in one day! This year the tickets came on sale on 4th of June and so far only 3 different passes (out of 15) have been sold out. So i guess many people had enough after seeing how the system worked last year and they decided this year they dont want it.

Interesting to see if they will change something or not after this year with not such a good ticket sale but i really doubt as long as they get big money from the government.

Im really happy that we got our WRC round, it has always been a dream for me, but this spectating system just doesnt work.

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I completely agree with you. This ultra capitalist system has really backfired for the organisers. I have many friends who are not going this year. Most of them are gathering at their friends summer houses, they set up screens to watch rally and have a good time.

Rally for me is experience with some wow moments, but also an adventure when I can just pick my spots or even if I have to walk many kms it's part of an adventure.

This however is not what I (dare to say WE) have not used to and it's certainly isn't positive experience. Last years Rally Estonia was the worst WRC event for me ever. Just completely boring with pointless spectating areas. It killed my appetite for 2021 edition.

We see and hear ads on TV and radio every day and friend of mine who's a bit connected says ticket sales are very worrysome

Hopefully the corporative mindset will break and they will change the system for the future.

IMHO the Power Stage is complete bull...in an otherwise interesting route.

Still, hopefully we have a fantastic rally with excellent performances

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Wow, I could not even think what you are describing guys. I have been to some rallies abroad and to Acropolis and I was free to carry with me whatever I wanted and stay where I wanted (always respecting safety and marshalls).
I was considering to visit Rally Estonia at some point but after this info, no.
It is a pity for Estonian people whose unbelievable passion I witnessed in Catalunya 2019.

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Originally Posted by bomber21

Wow, I could not even think what you are describing guys. I have been to some rallies abroad and to Acropolis and I was free to carry with me whatever I wanted and stay where I wanted (always respecting safety and marshalls).
I was considering to visit Rally Estonia at some point but after this info, no.

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Hopefully next year it will be more spectator friendly

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Totally agree with EstWRC and cali. I went last year and even already then it was just because WRC came to Estonia and nothing else. If they wouldn't have had big All Live screens in spectating areas, it would have been complete disaster in terms on experience. This was actually a nice idea. If you arrived early, then you could see what is happening on the previous stage and also it gave a good overview what is happening live. Although we Estonians brag about that we have wifi in the forest then actually, there are many many places, where the coverage is bad, especially when you have many fans at one place. Otherwise, just seeing cars going fast on the straight isn't my type of rally experience.

I think this year, when they knew that the number of spectators is going to be 20 000, then they should have let everyone choose where they want to go. I can imagine that it was very hard to predict in April/May, what is going to happen with the virus but there should have been some solution. They are smart guys. And 20k people, spread around many km isn't worse than club, festival or theater events that are happening without any restrictions now. And my suggestion would have been that, create some spectator areas with All live, catering etc and make it +5€ or something. So you can go to Pasamägi or Alakülja jump where people would want to go anyway. Or some tickets would have been more expensive and they would have included these famous places.

And I also think that rally should be attractive for people that are fans or more than fans. What I mean is that these are the people who will buy tickets, invite their friends with them, talk and advertise this event during lunches and coffee breaks etc. At least with me it has been like this that in previous years, I brought many friends with me who know what is rallying, who is Ott Täank but they have no idea where to go or what would be the cool places to watch. But this year, when those "magnets" that bring friends along, are not going, then this might be one of the reasons that there is so such a low interest.

well yeah its not all negative, there are good things too

everything is very like modern, lets say compared to Finland or Spain where i have been, the big screens are indeed very good to follow the stages that you arent spectating. The parking and getting to the stage is very good, at least at the places where i was last year. The system that you just scan the QR code from the magazine and it automatically opens Waze app in your phone and directs you to the stage is very good. You get discounts from Circle K station with the rally pass, food -20%, carwash -25%, all fuels -7s/l


but if the spectating system sucks then it all doesnt matter :laugh:

Just over 30 hours until closing Pickems. Don´t forget.

NOTE: I hade to move closing time to 1800 hrs CET .

I think organizers have done amazing job to make this rally happen and make it enjoyable for drivers, local governments units and land owners - I think one of the reason to limit spectators access to fields and forests is to avoid fights and problems with land-owners. Often there have been problems with ruined fields. Additionally organizers try to spread spectators to large area to avoid traffic jams.

But this is also the reason, why a lot of rally fans will skip this event as spectator on the event and follow it other ways, most likely including me.

https://scontent.ftll2-1.fna.fbcdn.n...2b&oe=60F470F3
https://scontent.ftll2-1.fna.fbcdn.n...e3&oe=60F3864B
https://scontent.ftll2-1.fna.fbcdn.n...9e&oe=60F4749E
https://scontent.ftll2-1.fna.fbcdn.n...0a&oe=60F3C193
https://scontent.ftll2-1.fna.fbcdn.n...dc&oe=60F4205E


https://www.facebook.com/WorldRally/...58510298765678

Interesting viewing 15:01-30:31
Saturday stage starting with sand quarry and going very fast on.
https://youtu.be/FI5qXY7Z_ao?t=901

very informative show if you understand Estonian :)

Think it'll be a difficult weekend for Seb. Cleaning looks like it'll have a big effect, plus he isn't at his best on ultra fast rallies and it's harder to make back any time lost.

Tänaks told media that Power stage is pure garbage. With litte more tactful words.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6Q-9k4W...pg&name=medium

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Originally Posted by Oliverk

Tänaks told media that Power stage is pure garbage. With litte more tactful words.

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But it was made for Hyundai!

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Originally Posted by Oliverk

Tänaks told media that Power stage is pure garbage. With litte more tactful words.

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Got a link?

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Originally Posted by AnttiL

Got a link?

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https://sport.postimees.ee/7293127/t...426.1590934939

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Originally Posted by cali

Rally for me is experience with some wow moments, but also an adventure when I can just pick my spots or even if I have to walk many kms it's part of an adventure.

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While most of it admittedly comes down to spectator management, safety plans, compliance with regulations, legal liability, ect, part of me thinks that some Rally organisers nowadays are completely dethatched from what it is to be a modern day, herded spectator. Sometimes I wonder how many organisers, usually older guys, actually got into the sport during this era where spectators are just 'accommodated' where it logistically works best, regardless of their experience. I would imagine that most organisers came to love the sport as real spectators, getting a plan together, chasing the cars, out for an adventure and the thrill and satisfaction of experiencing a great spot you've discovered. Yet, doing it officially on many rallies, spectators nowadays rarely get that, they can just say they saw the rally... The whole spirit of it is lost.

Maybe this is just the way is has to be in some countries, but the passing of the true rally experience must be lamented.

As it is though, as you guys will no doubt have seen over the years, we moaned here about Rally GB, but your set up sounds way worse. Rally GB was primarily organised the way it was out of fear of and compliance with UK H&S culture, but there was always a door left ajar for the 'freedom' option, so long as you didn't take the p*ss. Whereas it seems you're getting screwed largely for financial gain? The food and drink situation sounds like a joke!

Did Lukyanuk do a pre-event test?

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Originally Posted by RS

Did Lukyanuk do a pre-event test?

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yes

Hyundai has new cars for Tänak, Neuville and Breen

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Originally Posted by Tauri_J

yes

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Good. I couldn't find any videos.. is there not a communal WRC2/3 pre-event test any more?

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Originally Posted by RS

Good. I couldn't find any videos.. is there not a communal WRC2/3 pre-event test any more?

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I think I saw it on Instagram.

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Originally Posted by TypeR

Hyundai has new cars for Tänak, Neuville and Breen

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and first time this years new engine version... More power!