No farewells for the most "entertaining" driver that F1 has seen in this era???

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Originally Posted by jens

I wonder, what do these 66 incidents include. Because looking at races (I don't know about practices!) Senna wasn't THAT crash-prone, even if he had some incidents. He had lots of DNF-s, but mostly due to unreliable cars. The Lotus of 1985-87 was prone to running out of fuel before the chequered flag. And Senna had a pretty bad reliability in seasons like 1989 or 1992.

But that was a different era. Era in which cars were far more unreliable than today and could blow up regularly.

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Exactly, that's why I said it would be more accurate if you could eliminate mechanical "issues" from the count. That could probably be done, but I'm not race wonk enough to spend the time and effort to do it.

I'll agree he was very fast. I do not agree that he was "great", which, IMO, would include the drivers who I mentioned above

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Originally Posted by jens

I wonder, what do these 66 incidents include. Because looking at races (I don't know about practices!) Senna wasn't THAT crash-prone, even if he had some incidents.

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If you break a piece of car, say needing a nose cone replaced, then that's an incident. Especially early in his career, Senna was prone to spinning cars in Friday practice and breaking front wings. Maldonaldo's are similar; I read a lot of "Crashes into the barrier at Turn X by himself in Practice X."

only thing I can find is this list
http://en.espn.co.uk/f1/motorsport/page/3421.html

http://en.espn.co.uk/f1/motorsport/driver/457.html
"Emilio Giuseppe Farina
. But to many he was too reckless and in an era when the mortality rate among drivers was so high, that he was not one of the casualties was remarkable. When he did crash he refused to take the blame, always criticising the machinery, even though he was unwaveringly hard on his cars.
Read more at http://en.espnf1.com/alfaromeo/motor...luS9OugAsuK.99
desktop-lg
"
How did he make to to f1
http://en.espn.co.uk/f1/motorsport/driver/18827.html

"
Strengths and Weaknesses
He's undoubtedly quick - six wins in GP2 is a tough task no matter who your competitors are - but mistakes are still all too frequent. In F1 his mistakes were exposed so he might be better off knocking the edge off his speed to ensure consistent results.

Career High
Winning the Spanish Grand Prix and putting an end to Williams' eight-year victory drought.

Career Low
Taking out a marshal at Monaco while under yellow flags in the World Series by Renault. Wrecklessly launching Esteban Gutierrez into a frightening roll at the 2014 Bahrain Grand Prix also stands out.

Quotes
"When I was about three or four years old I said I wanted to race but I was too young, then when I reached the age of seven my father gave me a kart and we started from there."

"Sport should not be kept away from politics, it should be supported, like happens in Venezuela." President Hugo Chavez on supporting Maldonado

Read more at http://en.espnf1.com/lotus/motorsport/driver/18827.html#k9fW87F73b1DmKLj.99desktop-lg"

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Originally Posted by Starter

I agree it would be a fairer measure if you can factor out the mechanical incidents and only count driver error and car to car contact, but I doubt that data is readily available. I also don't think the era makes much difference, but if it makes you feel better throw Schumi and Proust in there too.

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if somebody has the time to put a list together you could start with this
http://en.espn.co.uk/f1/motorsport/season/index.html
under race
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Retirement

axle Gigi Villoresi ITA 38 Ferrari 63
oil leak Philippe Etancelin FRA 14 Talbot-Lago 36
accident José Froilán González ARG 2 Maserati 1
accident Nino Farina ITA 32 Alfa Romeo 0
accident Luigi Fagioli ITA 36 Alfa Romeo 0
accident Louis Rosier FRA 16 Talbot-Lago 0
accident Robert Manzon FRA 10 Simca-Gordini 0
accident Toulo de Graffenried SUI 52 Maserati 0
accident Maurice Trintignant FRA 12 Simca-Gordini 0
accident Cuth Harrison GBR 24 ERA 0
accident Franco Rol ITA 44 Maserati 0
collision Harry Schell
"

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Originally Posted by jens

I wonder, what do these 66 incidents include. ....

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Prost :p:

Interesting comparisons to Senna, wow.. never thought I'd see them both mentioned in the same sentence!
I think the cars are somewhat easier to drive now, different eras? I don't see them as being similarly dangerous.. but not sure why. I wonder how Ayrtons crash stats compare with other drivers of that time also compared to Maldonados vs the current crop.


I'm just glad to see the back of Pastor, he was a danger to everyone.

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Originally Posted by CNR

Career Low
Wrecklessly launching Esteban Gutierrez into a frightening roll at the 2014 Bahrain Grand Prix also stands out.

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You know, that's just him being an idiot that he is.
In my opinion his career low was after qualifying in Spa a few years ago when he deliberately drove into Hamilton.
He should have been out of F1 there and then.

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Originally Posted by Koz

...he deliberately drove into...
He should have been out of F1 there and then.

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Senna
Schumacher
Maldonado
The Entire Renault Team

Kenseth

There's an illustrious club if ever I saw one.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

Being a race winning driver does not particularly mean you are a good one. He was lucky that weekend and that is it! He wasn't capable of more. If he had been capable of better then he would have managed it in four years of driving. Talent alone isn't enough. If you're a complete idiot, and he is, then your talent is wasted, because it's canceled out by the wrong mentality and that mentality renders you incapable of achieving more.

As for Hulk, I'm not convinced about him either. I don't see what others see in him. He impressed me once to get pole in Brazil, just like Maldonado impressed once.

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Steady buddy, the Hulk won Le Mans last year. He is without doubt a top driver. His tall frame has put him at a disadvantage for top seats. That does not reflect on his ability at all. As for Maldonado, he got into a rot and just could not find his way out. We were saying just about the same thing about Grosjean. Luckily he found a way out of his rot. It is a difficult side of racing and darn depressing for a driver while they are in this sort of rot.

I happen to get what a difficult couple of seasons 2014 and 15 must have been for Maldonado; hence l see things differently.

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Originally Posted by Starter

I am definitely not the fan of Senna that most are. Though fast, I thought he was a dangerous and unsportsman like driver. 66 incidents in 95 race weekends is a 69% rate - hardly the mark of the best driver. Could someone pull up the incident rate for a few others like Clark, Fangio, Stewart, etc. for comparison?

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I think we should put things in perspective. Senna was unlikely to win 3 championships if he crashed a lot on race days. There were the obvious crashes during the battle with Prost. Beside those and the unavoidable DNFs due to mechanical problems, l really do not remember many driver errors from Senna. You may have your reasons for not being a Senna fan but you must at least give respect where respect is due. And Senna deserves loads of respect, in my opinion. He was hard but fair and fast.