https://www.fiaerc.com/hyundai-revea...enger-for-erc/
'New'(ish) R5 contender for Hyundai.
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https://www.fiaerc.com/hyundai-revea...enger-for-erc/
'New'(ish) R5 contender for Hyundai.
No idea if already mentioned; Hyundai launched a bunch of cool backstage videos (only saw ep.1) celebrating their 2019 WMC title. Can be seen on YT: https://www.youtube.com/user/Hyundaii20WRC
Btw, where’s Hyundai WRC testing site?
2020 New look and first impressions...
https://motorsport.hyundai.com/new-year-new-look/
and a short clip of the test on their instagram page https://www.instagram.com/p/B60RcbOpW5v/
I'm afraid Tänak will destroy Neuville's psycic, i dont think he can handle that Tänak takes his nr1 status and beat him on most rallies.
He will start to crash, and be more frustrated.
I belive Mikkelsen will drive 7 rallies and still be 2nd best pointscorer in Hyundai, Tänak will make the Hyundai fits Mikkelsen like a glove, and he is atleast on Neuville's level and not nearly that fragile.
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Neuville isnt so fragile. He has massive self-belief that he is the best and fastest driver. This, plus his experience in the i20, will take a lot to be broken.Quote:
Originally Posted by skarderud
Hopefully Tanak wont dominate as the battle with Neuville in the same machinery should be the best we can see in 2020.
Neuville is a tough nut so I cant see him crack so easily. Will be interesting...
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Neuville was in quite deep waters during 2015/2016 but survived and came back stronger. I don't see him losing his grip anytime soon.
Neuville's completely unaffected return after that massive crash in Chile also shows his mental strength...
You are joking right? I'm not sure Neuville will beat Tanak, but Mikkelsen with double the rounds competed...Quote:
Originally Posted by skarderud
EVeryone seems to be overblowing MIKK at the expense of Sordo.Quote:
Originally Posted by dupanton
Sordo did 2 less rallies than Andreas and was only 13 points behind.
and a short onboard today added https://www.instagram.com/p/B62TVvHpaJV/Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
also with some tech problemsQuote:
Originally Posted by rallyfiend
No, i'm not.Quote:
Originally Posted by dupanton
He has been in the fight every year before the last rallies, then f..ked it up every time.
Who can forget his % speaches, he was confident he should be WDC....
Now with Tänak in the same team that will be faster ?
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Sordo did great, maybe even his best season ever for the events he ran...but with 5 rallies with big road position advantage (ARG as neutral) and two tarmac ones it hardly shows how he would do in Sweden, GB, or Finland. Historically and as late as 2017 he was really bad at those. So while being great choice for those rallies he does his potential from other ones is very limited.Quote:
Originally Posted by rallyfiend
You've had too much to drink I reckonQuote:
Originally Posted by skarderud
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
Any better argument?
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Arguments?
Which arguments do you have to put Mikkelsen "at least" on the level of Neuville? He's been driving for longer than both Neuville and Tänak, and what has he achieved? Won 3 times with Polo WRC. Once very lucky when Ogier crashed on powerstage, once very lucky when Tänak punctured on the penultimate stage, and one well-deserved win in Australia. 3 wins during 7 seasons competing with the very best cars available. Neuville has won a lot more events, beating his rivals by actually being faster... Maybe he hasn't been as consistent as Tänak last year, or as Ogier before, but in all last 3 seasons he scored nearly as much (or even more) than all his teammates combined...
No need to promote Mikkelsen, he's nowhere near the level of the current top 3. And after so many years, I don't see any reason why that could suddenly change.
Read my post one more time.Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
Tänak going to beat Neuville, Neuville starts to crash to catch Tänak.
Mikkelsen, as now is without a regular seat, maybe half season, who knows, going to get maximum out of his possibilities to save his career, the same with breen, they both scoring safe points, and be around the second best pointscorer in Hyundai, because i think Neuville going to crash to much.
Mikkelsen was 4th last year, best of the rest, in a car that dosent suit him with every reason to be afraid for his seat, with less rallies than most of his competitors.
Its not like i said greensmith or Tiedemann going to be WDC.....
Time will show.
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First full WRC season:Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
Neuville 2012 (hasn't missed anything since)
Tanak 2012 (missed 2013 and almost all of 2014
Mikkelsen 2014 (missed more than half of 2017 + 3 in 2019)
Only ranking where you could count Mikkelsen as driving longer would be first start with WRC, since in 2006-2008 he was driving multiple WRC rallies as paydriver as his first rallies. But that balances out with him driving cup Subaru and Fiesta on Hankook the next two years.
In number of WRC starts it's like this:
Neuville and Mikkelsen 110
Tanak 105
When counting starts in any rally (listed on ewrc-results) you get:
Tanak 222
Mikkelsen 203
Neuville 183
So what you wrote isn't really true. By all means those 3 have about same amount of seat time and experience. In terms of age Tanak is the oldest of them 1 year older than Neuville and 2 year older than Mikkelsen.
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Mikkelsen has not been close to top 3 the last 2 years that is true, he was there in 2016. I do see how it could change back to that, but imo it would need him to leave Hyundai, which for some reason he is not trying (hard) to do. Similarly Tanak didn't show that he could fight for championship at the end of 2016, so things can change.Quote:
No need to promote Mikkelsen, he's nowhere near the level of the current top 3. And after so many years, I don't see any reason why that could suddenly change.
When it comes to opinions for this year I don't think Neuville will suddenly collapse. But I also doubt that Neuville-Tanak in one team will work well for both of them in the longer term. Seeing how Adamo treated Mikkelsen in 2019 I doubt there will be any significant chance for him to score many points this year.
What car does suit Mikkelsen? An ultra dominant VW with no competition? And still, Mikkelsen only won 3 events with that car after multiple years (one on pace alone).
He couldn't drive the C3 on gravel, but was happy with it on tarmac and finished 2nd (while it was the best tarmac car). Meeke led Corsica and won Spain that year proving the car was capable on that surface back then.
At Hyundai, Neuville has fought for 3 championships in a row with the car. He has shown he is on the same sort of level as Ogier and Tanak in terms of speed across all surfaces. The only question mark left for Neuville is if he can get over the line - that's all that's been missing and it's really fine margins. As mentioned above, combine championship pts for the last 3yrs and you can see Neuville is there or thereabouts in the top 3 undoubtedly. Mikkelsen isn't in that class atm.
And if he needs an ultra perfect car or great road position to fight with the front runners on events, that proves he isn't in on the same level as the top 3. Give some drivers a tractor or a dog of a car, and they can still wring the best out of it. That's something I don't believe Mikkelsen has shown he can do yet considering Neuville's performances vs Mikkelsen at Hyundai.
FWIW, I still think Mikkelsen deserves a place in the WRC and wish Msport would've taken him, but that's Tommi, Malcolm and Adamo who seem to see differently about Mikkelsen.
VW worked much better for him than for Latvala in 2016, at a time where he spend just about all gravel rallies as 2nd on the road for 2 days, which certainly did affect the results. Fabia in any version (S2000/R5) worked well. For C3 on gravel he scored the first ever PS points in it (Meeke never got it to PS finish in one piece) and outpaced Meeke in the mentioned Germany tarmac outing and scored first ever tarmac podium for it. So in the end it's more like the only car that has not worked for multiple rounds is i20.Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
Imo the only one who has really shown to get results with imperfect car is mr. Ogier in 2017 at MSport and in 2019 with C3. Mikkelsen has not shown he can consistently drive with I20 yes. Even Neuville has real issues with the car at times (Sardinia this year and Finland any of last 5 years). Sordo just doesn't start the rounds where he struggles since 2017.Quote:
And if he needs an ultra perfect car or great road position to fight with the front runners on events, that proves he isn't in on the same level as the top 3. Give some drivers a tractor or a dog of a car, and they can still wring the best out of it. That's something I don't believe Mikkelsen has shown he can do yet considering Neuville's performances vs Mikkelsen at Hyundai.
That said Neuville (and Sordo) has been developing and driving a Hyundai since they started in WRC and Loebs performance drop in C3 in 2018 vs i20 in 2019 is as big or bigger as Mikkelsen's. So will be interesting to see Tanak. Though since Nandan got fired there seems to be genuine will at Hyundai to make the car suit the drivers better, just didn't work for Loeb and Mikkelsen on tarmac yet.
There are rather special circumstances in each case:Quote:
FWIW, I still think Mikkelsen deserves a place in the WRC and wish Msport would've taken him, but that's Tommi, Malcolm and Adamo who seem to see differently about Mikkelsen.
Adamo - off course he prefers world champions 1 and 2 for fulltime seats, and likes the 3rd car rotation due to road position. It is also little likely Loeb will get dropped completely even if he keeps underperforming, simply because of the PR value.
Tommi - again 7 times WDC is a no question pick, so is Rovanpera with the hype and Jouhki relations. According to rumors Evans was picked by Ogier, likely cause he is used to supporting Ogier from MSport and never proved a real threat to him while Mikkelsen stole lot of points from Ogier in 2019 and also beat him a few times in VW
Malcolm - is all about money/business. Lappi was interested in paying, Mikkelsen wasn't (which I think is a mistake).
I'm very interested about the situation in Hyundai. Right now Neuville thinks he is the fastest driver in WRC and the title has not been achieved, because the car is not fast enough. Right now this can go two different ways.
1. Neuville is the fastest driver and Tänak won't have the speed to compete with him. Or the car doesn't suit him, like it has happened with some other drivers.
2. Tänak will be equal or faster than Neuville and with consistent driving, he will have better overall results. This might push Neuville to drive over his limits and crashes are going to happen. Also it will be interesting to see, if the car is bad in Finland or not :).
Anyway the dynamics in the Hyundai team will be interesting to watch. As an estonian I hope for the second solution :D
Should be fun to watch....Quote:
Originally Posted by trykmann
My question is, do the small mistakes from Neuville come from having to push a lesser car too hard to keep up, or from Neuville himself?
Tanak made almost no errors last season, but he mostly had the fastest car, so it’s easier to drive within yourself.
I think both of them will be praying Ogier doesn’t have a totally reliable Toyota...
mikkelsen is one of those examples of how you can only buy your way up to a certain level. latvala, ostberg, greensmith, ... are all the same.
with a little talent you can pay for a drive and get so much experience that people start to believe you are very talented. but every now and then someone really talented comes along and suddenly it shows you are only a B-class driver.
it will indeed be very interesting. we will for the first time in many years actually be able to tell how much of the performance comes from the car, and how much from the driver.Quote:
Originally Posted by trykmann
You forgot Serderidis.Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
nobody ever thought he had any talent, not even himself. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Hold on here mate... Where's this "fastest car" thing comes from?? If you look at Toyota drivers in general you seriously cannot make that conclusion and starting from midseason Hyundai was clearly the best package overall.Quote:
Originally Posted by doubled1978
Only Tänak was fast in a Toyota! Few years back VW was clearly the best car, but Toyota hasn't dominated like this so this "fastest car" claim is based on fiction.
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This is something I just can't stand, the sort of black and white vision where only Tänak, Neuville and Ogier are "really talented" and others are "B-class drivers".Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
Well, he hasn't have own money to pay for a drive since 2009, and a manager that never paid for a drive, so i really don't get where he has paid his way up from?Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
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Steady now, I can make that conclusion and I have sources that know...Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
It is generally accepted within the sport that the Toyota is the quickest car, not always but more often than not..more so before the illegal rear wing was removed.
But I also have eyes, and I can see myself the Toyota is the best package.
Tanak won the WDC this year at pretty much at will, personally I think he had more speed available a lot of the time if he had needed it and I don’t believe we saw his ‘true’ pace very often. He would have won the Championship by miles if the car had been more reliable and without the puncture issues. Apart from Turkey and maybe Monte Carlo, on natural car/driver speed he could have won every event including Catalunya (where he was driving for the championship) even with road position disadvantage a lot of the time. If you think that is solely because Tanak has just suddenly become super human, your dreaming. Its because he is fantastic, and he had the best car.
Meeke was very fast when he didn’t crash or have issues either mental or technical, and Latvala was in the middle of a personal meltdown through 2019, so neither offer a consistent representation of the cars speed throughout the year because they themselves were so up and down.
I think both Tanak and Neuville will have it all on to beat Ogier next year, but let’s see, maybe Tanak is a once in a generation talent who can win in anything and now he has the Championship his confidence will be sky high.
It’s not difficult to understand, Ogier in VW made very few mistakes, Ogier in C3 made plenty....Tanak in Fiesta made mistakes, Tanak in Toyota made almost none...its a simple premise that the guy in the fastest car doesn’t have to push so hard and makes less mistakes, and you don’t have to just look at rallying to see this trend in Motorsport.
This topic starts to be more about Mikkelsen than HWRT, but it is good since in generally it is very worrying development that 4th placed driver (without full season) does not seem to have future in WRC. How should we then position all those other drivers who say or either believe that teams will invest to them as future profit machines? If only Tanak and Neuville are seen in 2021 worth of paying salary, what will be the normal time window for other drivers to beat these two to get their seats?
It's like this. B segment drivers need to step up from their game to the higher level. Only one who can show that now is Evans I think. I just hope that crying frenchie will not ruin everything again. Toyota will not be tolerate like M-Sport is. Evans needs to play his own game and still be there for nr. 1 guy but not risking his own future of driving slow just to please Ogier, which in case he did the whole 2017-2018.
Then there is Lappi. I believe he doesn't have that much pressure on him because M-Sport knows they can't fight for any title, just for occasional podium or even win. He have a time for develop further and maybe fight for it later in season or even next year if he will still be in this team.
In case of Mikkelsen, Breen, Ostberg, Paddon, Meeke. They have much worse situation now without a drive. But when opportunity comes I would not look at others just to myself if I was in their shoes. All along it's going all abput their future not others.
I think Latvala's time is over in WRC. He needs to realize that soon. Even if Ogier will go out which was case for most of his not-winning the titles ''problem'' he now have 2 more guys who are absolutely much better than him and have greater chances of titles than him.
All of teams want one guy who can fight for WDC. One consistent guy who can be there to support nr. 1 car. And one guy who can be there in case one of those two hit the trouble. Problem of most of B segment drivers is that they have high expectations of winning WDC even if their future is at risk or even don't have a contract. The Only ones who knows his places are Sordo and Loeb. They bot know that they will not win anymore and that pressure out of their shoulders show then in better results than most of others.
Many times in 2018, but I don’t remember any from 2017.Quote:
Originally Posted by deephouse
Also, it’s said Ogier wanted Evans as a teammate. Maybe it was his way to thank Evans for his 2018 efforts?
It's more down to how you make or develop the car to yourself not that the Toyota was the best car or Tänak a superhuman.Quote:
Originally Posted by doubled1978
Surely Ogier will be very fast in Toyota, I have no doubt about it. If he dominates 2020 we have the answer, if not it's the driver not the car.
From midseason and onwards and specially after wing modifications Hyundai was clearly the best package. JML and Meeke were always fast on 1st day due to their road position, rarely were they carrying top pace from Saturday and onwards.
I can't really see how you can come up with that conclusion and I know some people also inside the rallying circle and while they agree that Toyota is a good and fast car nobody has told me that it was the best package.
I think we agree to disagree here and as thing is debatable this theory of yours is not widely accepted at all.
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Why don't we compromise all and let's say that C3 is best car/package. Shame just that they will not be aroumd anymore. 😂
Insta post re Mikkelsen saying he has no drive for 2020 just hoping for some 4th car with Hyundai.
https://www.instagram.com/p/B68kv2AK...=1kvkp3x5lgsu4
Both ogier and neuville seem convinced that the toyota was the fastest car. And i assume if anyone should be able to tell, it should be ogier.Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
In a few weeks we'll know for sure.
Let's hope he at least can get some outings in a 4th car. Another driver who is more than good enough to have a full campaign.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Really gutting to have Mikkelsen, Meeke, Latvala, Breen, Paddon, Ostberg etc all without full seasons. We ideally needed one more manufacturer, and that was before Citroen pulled out! :(
I think it will be a few events before the natural order shows itself. I genuinely hope that we see a great 3 way battle again between these guys over the course of the season.Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
Last season the battle was kept alive by the unreliability/punctures of the Toyota, otherwise Tanak would have been long gone by mid season.
Regardless of anything else the Neuville/Tanak battle will be probably the most interesting part of the season as putting two top guns in the same team is usually a reputation breaker for someone.