TOYOTA GAZOO Racing WRT

I didn't expect Kalle to get any podiums this year. I would have been happy with good stage times and top 5 finishes. This was above my expectations, but I don't expect him to continue getting more podiums. Especially the technical gravel rallies will be difficult for him, and most likely tarmac rallies as well. Based on this result we could expect him do well in Finland and maybe Wales also. But like someone said already, this was a short rally, and it's mentally more demanding to keep a good position for 300 km versus 150 km.

And yeah, let's just let FIA award the titles at the end of the year to the driver with the most points :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnttiL

I didn't expect Kalle to get any podiums this year. I would have been happy with good stage times and top 5 finishes. This was above my expectations, but I don't expect him to continue getting more podiums. Especially the technical gravel rallies will be difficult for him, and most likely tarmac rallies as well. Based on this result we could expect him do well in Finland and maybe Wales also. But like someone said already, this was a short rally, and it's mentally more demanding to keep a good position for 300 km versus 150 km.

And yeah, let's just let FIA award the titles at the end of the year to the driver with the most points :)

---

Everything you say is true, but I have a funny feeling we may see a few more surprises from him this season, especially on those rallies you mention. That said I’m sure there will be some character building events as well for him to endure..

I really wonder how he does on the overseas and new rallies. Cause that's where both Lappi and Suninen have struggled the most and mostly still struggle.

If not hyping Kalle, who then deserves being hyped?

Some of you guys can´t stand performances well over expected.

Having said that, we can surely expect ups and downs in the future for him. Let´s wait and see.

Hyping is always bad...in front.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tarmop

Hyping is always bad...in front.

---

Hyping in a positive way is never bad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mknight

I really wonder how he does on the overseas and new rallies. Cause that's where both Lappi and Suninen have struggled the most and mostly still struggle.

---

I think he'll do well in Argentina and might even be a candidate for the win. He pretty much dominated in 2018 until he had his massive accident on El Condor

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rallyper

Hyping in a positive way is never bad.

---

Definition of "hype" is promotion consisting of exaggerated claims. = saying something is better than it actually is.
In other words "positive" lies. Therefore hyping in "negative" way is technically impossible.

I my view lying is never good, but opinions differ on that.
Praise is not the same as hype. Whether what some commentators do is hype or praise is another discussion.

(end of language corner)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mknight

Definition of "hype" is promotion consisting of exaggerated claims. = saying something is better than it actually is.
In other words "positive" lies. Therefore hyping in "negative" way is technically impossible.

I my view lying is never good, but opinions differ on that.
Praise is not the same as hype. Whether what some commentators do is hype or praise is another discussion.

(end of language corner)

---

:) So in this case it´s about words then.

Can we agree Kalle did more than expected both in RMC and RS? And his future looks bright?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rallyper

Can we agree Kalle did more than expected both in RMC and RS? And his future looks bright?

---

Yes, but we still need to wait longer to see his true potential.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnttiL

Yes, but we still need to wait longer to see his true potential.

---

Sure. But still the future looks bright. Right? We´ve seen a lot yet. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rallyper

Can we agree Kalle did more than expected both in RMC and RS? And his future looks bright?

---

Yes I agree.
For me the overseas and new events are the ones that will be most interesting. On the european ones I expect him to be around 3-4 place at least after what we have seen so far.

Before getting too carried away, we need to take into account the exceptional circumstances of rally Sweden.
Kalle did very well, and for outright pace seems to be very competitive, but to be 3-4 placed on European events will mean beating one of the 'big three'.
Sweden was halved in the amount of stages, with extra tyre changes. Let's see how he copes under normal circumstances before getting too excited, but for sure he will grow and be one for the future.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Norm75

Kalle did very well, and for outright pace seems to be very competitive, but to be 3-4 placed on European events will mean beating one of the 'big three'.

---

One of the three will either be cleaning the road or have some issues (punctures, offs). Looking at last year the only european events where none of the 3 had issues were Portugal and GB. On the other 6 events there was always something. (Sure Rovanpera will also have issues here and there) .

We can't really draw comparisons to last year.
Ogier isn't in the worst car, he is in what most consider the best car.
The Toyota has had a change of rims so we shouldn't be seeing the rim failures we saw last season. Evans has seemed to gel with the Yaris, and then we have the likes of Sordo and Loeb, as well as Neuville and Tanak at Hyundai.
For that reason I would say placing 5-6 in those rallies would be a more realistic expectation, but the real measure will be stage times not so much final placing in rallies.

Toyota changed its setup, not the rims i believe.*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tarmop

Toyota changed its setup, not the rims i believe.*

---

Scroll down the story

https://www.wrcwings.tech/2019/08/26...y-deutschland/

Yaris GR prices revealed:

https://www.evo.co.uk/toyota/yaris/2...-under-ps30000

If Evans wins the WDC will the roads of Wales be full of these like it used to be full of Subaru Impreza's ? ;)

Icons can't be replaced with any kind of cool or ''fascinating'' car. It just can't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

Yaris GR prices revealed:

https://www.evo.co.uk/toyota/yaris/2...-under-ps30000

If Evans wins the WDC will the roads of Wales be full of these like it used to be full of Subaru Impreza's ? ;)

---

I believe that they will make only those 2500 pieces which are needed for homologation, so prices could go up...

That happened with Celica "Carlos Sainz Limited Edition", used cars were more expensive than new ones.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pantealex

I believe that they will make only those 2500 pieces which are needed for homologation, so prices could go up...

That happened with Celica "Carlos Sainz Limited Edition", used cars were more expensive than new ones.

---

It's 25,000.

"The GR Yaris will not be limited to just a few hundred units, instead Toyota will need to produce a full 25,000 next year in order to comply with WRC regulations."

Nope. it is 2500, like the rule says. Confirmed by D. Evans in Dirtfish and several other.

GR-Four as it says on cars back tail is new recce car for TGR, 8 pieces are coming to Puuppola/Tallinn.

Cars will be recce ready in summer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tarmop

Nope. it is 2500, like the rule says. Confirmed by D. Evans in Dirtfish and several other.

---

Can you show the proof. I read this...

"Typically with WRC homologation requirements, you have to sell 25,000 examples of a base car, and 2500 of them have to be the model variant being homologated for rally. Wikipedia's helpful example highlights Subaru: to homologate the WRX for rallying, you have to sell 25,000 Imprezas and of those, 2500 have to be WRXes. But, the GR Yaris is so different than the standard Yaris, Toyota will have to sell 25,000 for homologation."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

Can you show the proof. I read this...

"Typically with WRC homologation requirements, you have to sell 25,000 examples of a base car, and 2500 of them have to be the model variant being homologated for rally. Wikipedia's helpful example highlights Subaru: to homologate the WRX for rallying, you have to sell 25,000 Imprezas and of those, 2500 have to be WRXes. But, the GR Yaris is so different than the standard Yaris, Toyota will have to sell 25,000 for homologation."

---

normal Yaris is only a 5-door model but, like already mentioned, they just need to make 2.500 3dr Yaris in order to match Gr.A basic body dimensions rules (one of the few limitations of the WRC Kit variant).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pantealex

normal Yaris is only a 5-door model but, like already mentioned, they just need to make 2.500 3dr Yaris in order to match Gr.A basic body dimensions rules (one of the few limitations of the WRC Kit variant).

---

That would mean no need to make a GR4 version just some basic 3-door cars so why have they bothered ?

The GR4 is much different to any other Yaris, its not just the number of doors. It has a lower coupe-style roofline and the wider body and arches. Toyota TGR wanted this for the WRC car for better aero, a wider track and better placement of the rear wing.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...ation-special/

"This is a stunning machine and a true homologation special, for while it's unique four-wheel-drive system isn't eligible for WRC competition, the specialised, low-roof, lightweight three-door bodyshell most certainly is. To qualify to use the new car in the WRC, however, the company will have to build 25,000 road-going models in a single year."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/new...road-unveiled/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

That would mean no need to make a GR4 version just some basic 3-door cars so why have they bothered ?

The GR4 is much different to any other Yaris, its not just the number of doors. It has a lower coupe-style roofline and the wider body and arches. Toyota TGR wanted this for the WRC car for better aero, a wider track and better placement of the rear wing.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...ation-special/

"This is a stunning machine and a true homologation special, for while it's unique four-wheel-drive system isn't eligible for WRC competition, the specialised, low-roof, lightweight three-door bodyshell most certainly is. To qualify to use the new car in the WRC, however, the company will have to build 25,000 road-going models in a single year."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/new...road-unveiled/

---

2500 GR4's will be sold in a week, at the right price they will sell 25 000 without any problem as well.
Get started national rally cups with rabated cars will also help getting the numbers up!

From the early tests it looks like a fun car to drive in road version, a rally version would be even better!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

That would mean no need to make a GR4 version just some basic 3-door cars so why have they bothered ?

---

Basic 3-door doesn´t excist...
Normal "Made in France" Yaris is always 5-doors, GR-Four is "Made in Japan" and as you said differences are big, I have seen it Live few times (red, white and black color units so far)

Ford Fiesta is only largely sold B-segment car which is still available in 3-doors.
Clio, 208, C3, Corsa, Fabia, Ibiza, Polo, Rio, i20, Micra, Jazz ... only 5-doors

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pantealex

Basic 3-door doesn´t excist...
Normal "Made in France" Yaris is always 5-doors, GR-Four is "Made in Japan" and as you said differences are big, I have seen it Live few times (red, white and black color units so far)

Ford Fiesta is only largely sold B-segment car which is still available in 3-doors.
Clio, 208, C3, Corsa, Fabia, Ibiza, Polo, Rio, i20, Micra, Jazz ... only 5-doors

---

You miss my point. If it was just a 3-door version of the Yaris that TGR required then Toyota could just have made a simple 3-door version or a FWD hot-hatch for them.

But Makinen told Toyoda they wanted a special version they could base the 2021 WRC car on, with lots of differences. This meant a very different 'homologation-special' was required - the Toyota GR Yaris doesn’t share a single body panel in common with the stock Yaris.

This means that the GR Yaris is the 'basic car' that the 2021 WRC car will be based on and therefore 25,000 cars are required, not 2500.

Autocar:
"We’re not sure if Toyota will make the hatch a regular member of the band or restrict it to a limited-run homologation special. If it’s the latter, Toyota will build at least 25,000 of them to comply with WRC rules."

CAR:
"With most of the world turning to boring cars, Toyota has found its mojo with the GR brand and released another product hot on the heels of the recently relaunched Toyota Supra. What’s more, the Yaris GR isn’t just a limited run special, but it’s a 25k run of cars that is born out of the need to homologate its WRC car."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

You miss my point. If it was just a 3-door version of the Yaris that TGR required then Toyota could just have made a simple 3-door version or a FWD hot-hatch for them.

---

If they built just a 3 door Yaris it wouldn’t sell. Hence why only one B-segment car is built in 3 door form nowadays... until this arrives!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

Autocar:
"We’re not sure if Toyota will make the hatch a regular member of the band or restrict it to a limited-run homologation special. If it’s the latter, Toyota will build at least 25,000 of them to comply with WRC rules."

CAR:
"With most of the world turning to boring cars, Toyota has found its mojo with the GR brand and released another product hot on the heels of the recently relaunched Toyota Supra. What’s more, the Yaris GR isn’t just a limited run special, but it’s a 25k run of cars that is born out of the need to homologate its WRC car."

---

You are copying things from Magazines, what is actual FIA WRC rules saying ?

Eddie, You already started the same discussion in another thread and you got the same answers, taken from the FIA rules and written by people who know the area. Even one of your favourite journalists has confirmed it, yet again you try to claim otherwise. Exactly the same scenario has happened a few times before.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pantealex

You are copying things from Magazines, what is actual FIA WRC rules saying ?

---

I know the FIA rules but they dont confirm whether the normal 5-door Yaris is ok as the base car, or if it must be the vasty-different GR Yaris.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tarmop

Eddie, You already started the same discussion in another thread and you got the same answers, taken from the FIA rules and written by people who know the area. Even one of your favourite journalists has confirmed it, yet again you try to claim otherwise. Exactly the same scenario has happened a few times before.

---

Tarmop, where is this other discussion and where is your proof of only 2500 cars required ?

It's a good question actually. If it works that way, Hyundai could now also make a base car for their next WRC, that has almost nothing to do with the actual i20. Then they could put the label "i20" on it and sell only 2500 pieces of it.

The base car has to sell 25000.

The model-variant, just 2500.

But the GR Yaris is a lot more than a model variant as it has a different, unique shell and chassis.

For example, a Fiesta ST is a model variant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

The base car has to sell 25000.
The model-variant, just 2500.
But the GR Yaris is a lot more than a model variant as it has a different, unique shell and chassis.
For example, a Fiesta ST is a model variant.

---

For gods sake, there’s no mention about 25.000 units in the FIA rules, just 2.500. All current rally cars, from R1 to WRC, are homologated under Gr.A basic rules (therefore the 2.500 units) and later modified according to their category regs (using the evolution variants of the Gr.A model). Check FIA Appendix J Article 255 (Gr.A) and 255A (WRC kit variant).

Once WRC cars rules are quite permissive, manus tend to use a cheap mass-produced model to cope with Gr.A homologation demands but they’re free to make 2.500 homologation special models if they want; actually the Yaris GR4 isn’t the first case in the WRC era: at least the 206 GT (4.000 units) and the Polo R (2.500 units) were purposely made to achieve Gr.A/WRC homologation.
http://www.cwn.org.uk/motoring/peuge...505-206-gt.htm
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volksw...gen-polo-r-wrc

Btw, even the Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Rally_Car has the 2.500 figure right, which makes one wonder from where the 25.000 figure come out.

Wasn’t 2,500 model variants out of 25,000 total the old Group A8 rules? i.e. 2,500 Lancia Delta Integrales out of 25,000 Lancia Deltas etc?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HKSjbg

Wasn’t 2,500 model variants out of 25,000 total the old Group A8 rules? i.e. 2,500 Lancia Delta Integrales out of 25,000 Lancia Deltas etc?

---

Again, it’s hard to find a mention to the 25.000 units (or 50.000, as Gr.A started in ’82 with a mandatory 5.000 units homologation, reduced to 2.500 in ’93) in FIA regs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rally Power

Again, it’s hard to find a mention to the 25.000 units (or 50.000, as Gr.A started in ’82 with a mandatory 5.000 units homologation, reduced to 2.500 in ’93) in FIA regs.

---

Try this from Toyota

Toyota Motor Corporation (Toyota) premiered the new GR Yaris―a homologation*1 model born to win the FIA World Rally Championship (WRC)―at the Tokyo Auto Salon today.(Appendix 1): https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/toyota/30976389.html

(*1) The necessary type of certification for participating in an FIA (Federation Internationale de l'Automobile) race. To acquire WRC homologation, the base model of a vehicle to be entered in a race must have a continuous 12-month production volume of 25,000 units or greater.



The Yaris GR is so different from the normal Yaris, it itself must be considered the BASE MODEL, hence it needs 25,000 units.

The Ford Fiesta WRC is based on the Fiesta ST. But the ST is very similar to the base Fiesta. So Ford has to make 25000 basic Fiesta's and only 2500 ST's.


And from another forum on this subject:

Quote: RSgeoff
I don't understand why they need to sell 25,000 to qualify for WRC - why aren't all the other WRC manufacturers having to do the same then?

Jakeh:
It's because they changed the car too much for it to count as a variant of a normal Yaris, so they have to do a special production car to count as the base for the WRC car.