WRC Croatia Rally 2021

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Originally Posted by EstWRC

havent seen anything yet but i really liked it and i hope it stays in the calendar, now after Corsica and Germany have been left out its a good replacement with a mix of both

very challenging for the drivers.

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As I am both driver and spectator, I can assure you that the criteria of a driver are totally different than the criteria of a spectator.
The reason I am asking is because the info I read is that it is mostly slippery tarmac with lots of gravel from cutting corners. I don't know if it really is like this. Also, I don't have info about drivers from other countries, but in my country this is the least liked condition among drivers and co-drivers. Actually, the majority of the drivers in my country hate these conditions.

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Originally Posted by scn

As I am both driver and spectator, I can assure you that the criteria of a driver are totally different than the criteria of a spectator.
The reason I am asking is because the info I read is that it is mostly slippery tarmac with lots of gravel from cutting corners. I don't know about drivers from other countries, but in my country this is the least liked condition among drivers and co-drivers. Actually, the majority of the drivers in my country hates it.

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That really isn't universal. I know for sure that for example in Belgium the crews mostly hate anti-cutting obstacles and prefer dirty cuts (hence why anticuts are not a thing there). Here it's usually that the faster drivers hate anti-cuts and prefer dirty road (and some know very well how to use that for their advantage), while the slower drivers and gentleman drivers prefer anti-cuts and clean road. In the the end the amount of anti-cuts is decided by the local administrations which don't give permition to run the event without them. Some like dry, somelike wet and slippery conditions....

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/c...ndai-/6469710/
Based in Zagreb, the third round of the World Rally Championship was well received by each of the manufacturer teams and their crews, and was the 34th new addition since the competition was first established back in the early 1970s.

Fans came out in their thousands to watch the action, even though it was not officially open to people, to witness Sebastien Ogier clinch his fifty first career win to move to the top of the drivers’ standings.

Adamo said countries like Croatia demonstrated what is possible with passionate people at the helm and questioned the status quo of sticking with the same line-up of counters from one year to the next.

“I think the World Rally Championship deserves to have proper events, whether they are new or not,” said Adamo.

“It is time to decide on some old events that deserve no more to stay in; I prefer to see new ones done by passionate people, people who are really focused on doing things the proper way.

“I think what we are seeing in Croatia is just a highlight. An event like this has shown it deserves to be in the World Rally Championship.

“OK, it is the first time and everything can be made better, but I think the stages we have seen are proof that this rally is a nice one.”

Ogier was equally as positive in his summarization of Rally Croatia, telling Autosport in the days leading up to the rally he was happy to go to new rallies and to new events” because “that makes the WRC very exciting”.

Returning to the subject during Sunday’s post-event press conference, he added: “I think we saw after the recce that it was going to be a big challenge but probably good fun to drive – Rally Croatia definitely delivered.

“It has been fantastic to drive these stages, especially with these conditions.”

Croatia is the second of three entirely new events for 2021, with the other two being February’s Arctic Rally Finland and August’s Ypres Rally in Belgium.

Nice to know the venue had a nice feedback from Crews and Fans alike.

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Originally Posted by Mirek

That really isn't universal. I know for sure that for example in Belgium the crews mostly hate anti-cutting obstacles and prefer dirty cuts (hence why anticuts are not a thing there). Here it's usually that the faster drivers hate anti-cuts and prefer dirty road (and some know very well how to use that for their advantage), while the slower drivers and gentleman drivers prefer anti-cuts and clean road. In the the end the amount of anti-cuts is decided by the local administrations which don't give permition to run the event without them. Some like dry, somelike wet and slippery conditions....

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Thank you for the info. Please have in mind that Czech and Belgian roads are not slippery. Here in Greece, we have some roads that when they are dry, especially in summer, they are much more slippery and more unpredictable than your roads when they are wet. This is what we have in mind when we say "slippery tarmac". I don't know how Croatian roads are and what they mean by "slippery".

P.S. Personally, I want this rally to remain. First of all, I believe that more tarmac rallies are needed. Second, it is very easy to travel from Greece to Croatia and if there was not Covid I would have gone this year.

Yeah, WRC gets a bit "dull" when it's ran on same rallies for 5+++ years often exactly same stages.
New events are great to also "confirm" that WRC is something that can run "anywhere" and not just on "set" tracks.

Obviously I understand that rally organizers need predictability but from WRC Promoter/FIA side it also looks like laziness to just run the same all the time.

Stages were indeed nice, question is if they plan same stages in the future (read something about moving closer to coast). Another is off course how crowd control/organization will work when there are less/no restrictions.

Out of the "new" rallies this year I rate Croatia highest (so far) in terms of stages. Arctic is imo a bit boring (and WRC goes back to Sweden anyway) and from what I have seen previously I don't have high hopes for Ypres.

EDIT: Slippery roads were one of the reasons why this looked good on TV. Corsica has for example nice looking roads, but it's a bit boring when cars drive on rails whole weekend.

Anyway as you probably noticed now is the time when WRC can get "easy" deals to run different rallies. The typical tourist countries have no visitors and are desperate to restart tourism. WRC is a way to show that they are still here and safe to visit. Hence why we get Croatia and Acropolis (the Greek guy on allive on Sunday said it pretty directly)

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Originally Posted by scn

Thank you for the info. Please have in mind that Czech and Belgian roads are not slippery. Here in Greece, we have some roads that when they are dry, especially in summer, they are much more slippery and more unpredictable than your roads when they are wet. This is what we have in mind when we say "slippery tarmac". I don't know how Croatian roads are and what they mean by "slippery".

P.S. Personally, I want this rally to remain. First of all, I believe that more tarmac rallies are needed. Second, it is very easy to travel from Greece to Croatia and if there was not Covid I would have gone this year.

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Yes, I know that our asphalt, especially the old one has very good grip. On the other hand the dirt on high-grip surface makes it more unpredictable with bigger changes in grip. In the past our drivers liked a lot to drive in Croatia and Slovenia when there was still the coefficient system for the ERC or when the CEZ had so many events in here that 2-3 events abroad were enough for scoring full championship points. Also I think that such slippery surface and stages which are often narrow can suit quite well to drivers who aren't proper asphalt racers (perfect line isn't really a thing on a stage like the PS yesterday but in Calatulya if you don't have perfect line you may end driving a kilometer longer rally than the winner).

Hopefully not a repost: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDdgx39SsUo

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Originally Posted by mknight

Stages were indeed nice, question is if they plan same stages in the future (read something about moving closer to coast). Another is off course how crowd control/organization will work when there are less/no restrictions.

Out of the "new" rallies this year I rate Croatia highest (so far) in terms of stages. Arctic is imo a bit boring (and WRC goes back to Sweden anyway) and from what I have seen previously I don't have high hopes for Ypres.

Anyway as you probably noticed now is the time when WRC can get "easy" deals to run different rallies. The typical tourist countries have no visitors and are desperate to restart tourism. WRC is a way to show that they are still here and safe to visit. Hence why we get Croatia and Acropolis (the Greek guy on allive on Sunday said it pretty directly)

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Well, Croatia tried for years to get this rally on the calendar and cancellations of some rallies definitely helped a lot. However, nothing would be possible without help and funds from local and state government, and also sponsors who recognized the event.

It's a great thing for the country that suffers a lot from travel restrictions and decline of tourism but it would've been held event without that. Also, it was held in Zagreb area which is not the main region for tourism. As for moving towards coast, I doubt it. It would change the nature of this rally a lot and I doubt that it will happen. You have some nice stages in Istra, region on the Adriatic, but these current stages are better IMO. They are more unpredictable, as well as weather, and they are mostly used for rallying for a long time.

Also, one sidenote, I read about people making fun of the trophies. They look weird but these are actually ancient symbols from glagoljica, ancient historic script that was used in medieval Croatia. They represent letter A, B and V but also numbers 1, 2 and 3. Ogier and Ingrassia have A1 here, obviously.

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/...er-julien-.jpg

Good video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMpU2s7AfOc&t=1s

Here is your bone: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/colin...river-ratings/

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?s...07553550792788

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Originally Posted by EstWRC

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?s...07553550792788

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I saw it spreading and I just make one comment on this title: Culture of “rallyfans” in Croatia

If in Rally Estonia 2 guys behave like idiots, I would not like it's called "Culture of "rallyfans" in Estonia. It's labeling based on exceptions (I hope).

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Originally Posted by MartijnS

Good video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMpU2s7AfOc&t=1s

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Good ? AWESOME ! :cool:

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Originally Posted by meh

More fuel to the fire - seems (and I'm surprised) that no one picked it up. Julian said (don't remember exactly when) on All-Live that he saw Markko Märtin (previous WRC driver, doing "manager" job for Tänak) visiting "other teams".

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I think Tanak will be back at Msport next season along with Fourmaux.

Toyota have Evans and Kalle to lead them when Ogier retires, and I don't think the Japanese will want to bring Tanak back after he left them for what felt like some non-sporting reasons.

Could be an interesting drivers market with so many out of contract and the new regs coming in.

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Originally Posted by er88

I think Tanak will be back at Msport next season along with Fourmaux.

Toyota have Evans and Kalle to lead them when Ogier retires, and I don't think the Japanese will want to bring Tanak back after he left them for what felt like some non-sporting reasons.

Could be an interesting drivers market with so many out of contract and the new regs coming in.

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there was nothing to do with Japanese, they wanted Ott to stay...it was all between Tommi, Mia and Tänak....Lappi left for the same reasons.

this is what i know at least.

you know there were stories that they wouldnt take Ogier in the team because what he said about the car back in the end of 2016, but guess what, Ogier is in the team.

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Originally Posted by meh

Here is your bone: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/colin...river-ratings/

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Only one major issue... Katsuta 10/10. Stage wins are nice but when he is last WRC 20s (1s/km) behind on the stage before they don't matter much. He was also on the way to finish 7th before Greensmith hit issues. So something like 7/10.

Breen would get like 3/10 from me mostly due to hitting the curb for puncture 30m into the stage.

Greensmith 7/10 is British bias, 5/10 from me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9r68s3Rurc&t=28s

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Originally Posted by meh

I saw it spreading and I just make one comment on this title: Culture of “rallyfans” in Croatia

If in Rally Estonia 2 guys behave like idiots, I would not like it's called "Culture of "rallyfans" in Estonia. It's labeling based on exceptions (I hope).

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there was news now that the wheel was given back, so all okay.

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Originally Posted by denkimi

Makes you wonder how good neuville must be when you see his pace in a car that all others think is crap.

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Cars are not just good/bad, but some cars suit some drivers better than others.

Tänak even said to Delfi (Estonian media) that all drivers except Neuville have a problem with the Hyundai on tarmac.

I was really the only driver in the team to follow up with the speed of Sébastien and Elfyn.
https://www.fia.com/news/wrc-rally-c...sible-any-more

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Originally Posted by dimviii

I was really the only driver in the team to follow up with the speed of Sébastien and Elfyn.
https://www.fia.com/news/wrc-rally-c...sible-any-more

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He was saying similar stuff in Argentina 2017 or sometime around that.
While it might be true at that point it certainly doesn't improve atmosphere in the team and cooperation for developing the new car.

There are quite a few times where he also has been the slowest Hyundai (lately Estonia 2020, Sardinia and Finland 2019).

I hope Adamo will be heard and FIA promoter will create a rotation based calendar. We need Estonia, we need Croatia, we need Belgium, we need Greece, we need Safari, we need the classic events as well.This way the sport gains more fans. Watching the social media, I see that Croatian people were really excited with the rally and they cannot wait to watch a WRC rally again.

Organize rallies in places people are passionate about them, this is what the sport needs. My fellow Greeks celebrated and are still celebrating when they heard we will host an Acropolis again, they even made a parade with their cars in Lamia.

Estonians are crazy about the sport and Tanak, I witnessed it in Catalunya 2019.

British people as well.

Get rid of rallies with few spectators and no passion, it is a bad image for WRC.

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Originally Posted by bomber21

I hope Adamo will be heard and FIA promoter will create a rotation based calendar. We need Estonia, we need Croatia, we need Belgium, we need Greece, we need Safari, we need the classic events as well.This way the sport gains more fans. Watching the social media, I see that Croatian people were really excited with the rally and they cannot wait to watch a WRC rally again.

Organize rallies in places people are passionate about them, this is what the sport needs. My fellow Greeks celebrated and are still celebrating when they heard we will host an Acropolis again, they even made a parade with their cars in Lamia.

Estonians are crazy about the sport and Tanak, I witnessed it in Catalunya 2019.

British people as well.

Get rid of rallies with few spectators and no passion, it is a bad image for WRC.

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Yeah. Agree. Rotate more. But don´t touch Rally Finland... that´s for sure.

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Originally Posted by Rallyper

Yeah. Agree. Rotate more. But don´t touch Rally Finland... that´s for sure.

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Rally Finland is the Mecca of rally fans, we don’t touch it. ;)

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Originally Posted by bomber21

Rally Finland is the Mecca of rally fans, we don’t touch it. ;)

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And Monte Carlo too?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ez68HnqX...g&name=900x900


https://twitter.com/PeteGJ90/status/...478195713?s=20

I saw the onboard of SS9 of Fourmaux. This stage is super-exciting and the dirt from the cuts is nothing extreme. Also, as far as I can judge from a video, this is not so slippery. It may be slippery compared to French or Italian tarmac, but it does not seem a really slippery road, as some we have in my country. All in all, at least this stage is lots of fun to drive.
I hope Croatia is in WRC next year. I have heard very good things about Zagreb from some old Serbian friends and I will surely visit it.

It was very nice event, really OK organized, with everyone really trying to do their best to make it happen!
Roads were really demanding, but at same time enjoyable to drive. Stages with very different character, many types of roads and surfaces, some extremely slippery. Some anti-cuts and some deep cuts with loads of gravel on the road.
This was surely great addition to the calendar.
Only thing which I don't like on all that type of WRC tarmac rallies is that only P1 and P2 crews can use gravel crews, which automatically makes fighting between top WRC2 and WRC3 crews impossible, etc.

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Originally Posted by Rallyper

Yeah. Agree. Rotate more. But don´t touch Rally Finland... that´s for sure.

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Rally Finland is rotating itself :D

Director of Rally Croatia, Daniel Šaškin, said that they got informal offer from FIA to organize rally for two more years. He claims that they are happy with the organization and that they want rally to remain in the calendar. Their job is to find sponsorship and money for the rally but that shouldn't be problem now when the rally is succesful story and when economic crisis is (hopefully) behind us.

Excellent news for both Croatian and rally fans in general. Without COVID restrictions, I can guarantee that this will be one of the best attended rallies in the calendar. It's the closest venue for a large part of Middle, Southern and Southeastern Europe and Croatia itself is attractive enough to have tons of visitors. This year's rally is also an excellent invitation.

But let's wait for the official 2022 calendar to be sure.

Our review of the aero innovations seen during Rally Croatia

https://www.wrcwings.tech/2021/04/26...-croatia-2021/

Attachment 2087 Attachment 2088 Attachment 2089

According to this video, Ogier shouldn't be the only one that got a fine from the FIA or police.. Not normal..
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lER8Ru...outu.be#dialog

Nothing else than just showoff or smth..

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Originally Posted by TypeR

According to this video, Ogier shouldn't be the only one that got a fine from the FIA or police.. Not normal..
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lER8Ru...outu.be#dialog

Nothing else than just showoff or smth..

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If someone thinks that rally drivers drive sensibly on the liaisons, you need to have a reality check. When they start to warm up, "road safety" is the last phrase you'd use to describe it.

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Originally Posted by Franky

If someone thinks that rally drivers drive sensibly on the liaisons, you need to have a reality check. When they start to warm up, "road safety" is the last phrase you'd use to describe it.

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Yep, typical tyre warming before the stage start.

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by TypeR

According to this video, Ogier shouldn't be the only one that got a fine from the FIA or police.. Not normal..
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lER8Ru...outu.be#dialog

Nothing else than just showoff or smth..

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Comparing orange with apple... eg accident or going through red light with tyres/brakes warm up - that happens before every stage in any rally and done by all.

i like this photo

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E0ASj-IX...jpg&name=small

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Originally Posted by TypeR

Nothing else than just showoff or smth..

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This is not showoff. This is the most important action against having an accident in the first corners of a stage because of cold tyres. Especially on slippery tarmac it is a necessary safety measure for both crew and spectators, believe it or not. All drivers do it. It is utter stupidity not to do it.

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Originally Posted by scn

because of cold tyres

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and brakes

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Originally Posted by dimviii

and brakes

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I don't know about WRC, but the Wilwood A, the Carbone Lorraine RC6 and the OMP pads I have experience with do not need any warming up. They work from 100 degrees Celsius and the amazing Carbone Lorraine from ambient temperature. The Ferodo DS3000 need some slight warming to 250 degrees, but one or two hard brakings are enough. Only the old Ferodo DS11 needed significant warming-up, but these are not produced anymore.
The big danger is the tyres. Especially on slippery tarmac, cold tyres are hell. Use of handbrake on straights and braking are preferred for warming up the tyres because it is much less provocative to brake than to do slaloms on public roads. As far as I know, this method started in France because the French police gave lots of fines for slaloms. So French drivers started using the brakes and the handbrake on straights, which is not illegal, and they avoided the fines. In Greece we use the handbrake and the brakes only when warming up is done in populated areas. In all other areas slaloms are the standard method, even in front of police.