I think Oliver stalled the first thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
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I think Oliver stalled the first thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Learning that always (almost) bring two spares...Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
It’s always a gamble.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Who should stop them? Should Tänak be penalized for not stopping when the tyre turned into a plain rim?Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
Oliver Solberg did the same in Hungary last year, no penalty whatsoever...
The stewards pretended to be blind.Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
But more or less tricky conditions appear.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
yeah it is but today, with conditions being really hard and the knowing that you cant continue tomorrow if the tyres go, they should have had 2 spares. i was surprised right away when i saw in the morning that they only have oneQuote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
and in monza, where there was basically service after every stage, he carried two ones the whole rally
Yeah that was weird. Maybe he wanted to shift the weight balance of the car more to the back?Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
To my mind a fine is the wrong punishment.Quote:
Originally Posted by sti123
There should be a one minute time penalty, otherwise, if he realises his mistake whilst in the stage, there is not enough incentive for the driver to stop and properly fasten his helmet.
I think everybody related too much on the old michelin habits assuming pirelli will work the same, but ended up differently. maybe it's just me, but i don't remember so much punture on snow previous years and after that loop everybody carried 2 spare.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
I know some situations in the past few years where the Technical Delegate or some other FIA member would wait in the road section for the driver driving on the rim and would stop them right away.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
yeah could be, and somebody already mentioned here, it seems to come off the rim quite quickly compared to michelinQuote:
Originally Posted by wyler
Yes, most cars with punctures were all on the rim at the end, I don't remember any cars with flat tyres , all the tyre had gone compared to Michelin when the tyre usually stayed on the rim.
So, it's a hattrick. del Barrio also 400 Euro. Guigou 200 for balaclava outside the suit.
+ co-driver of Neuville (W-man)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom K
Personally I don’t like that we are losing cars from rallies simply because they don’t have a tyre to drive the road section back to service on. I know it’s rallying etc, but to my mind the time loss on the SS is enough, for Tanak to be out completely for this is ridiculous to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
Usually it was only about traffic rules and police, if they have stopped that cars or not. Later FIA added this rule to the regulations and started to punish for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by doubled1978
Which was a correct step. Before it lead to number of traffic craziness and potentially negative publicity among general public (Elena sitting in the window during a drive on the motorway for example) and it was also very selective who got away with it and who didn't. If you have two drivers doing the very same thing, let's say in Mexico, and one's name is Loeb and the other's is let's say Bulacia. Who has a higher chance that the police let him pass? Now they are even, at least in something.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
It's completely absolutely totally ridiculous that Tanak won't be driving tomorrow because of this.
Tanak as a driver is safer on the road than a 90 y/o half blind person that would have been perfectly legal to drive, even if he was to drive on his brake rotors.
What I'm saying is that in current times where there aren't too many rallies, half of the calendar will be inevitably cancelled compromises should have been made. 400 euro fine for Ogier is nothing and his offence is totally health/life threatening compared to Tanaks.
Please use your brains and question decisions. Right now people are living in tirany because of blind obedience of whatever stupid rules. Now go on and hit me with "rules are rules".
I wasn’t suggesting they should let the guys drive back on rims or anything as trust me in years gone by I’ve followed some completely unroadworthy cars back, but maybe there could be a mechanism where the last stage of a loop or leg could have a van with joker rims at the end so someone who would otherwise be stranded and out can get back to service. 1 joker per rally per driver.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Just a thought to keep guys in the event for what is an easily solved issue for almost no cost.
Well, everyone knows the rules and everyone knows that there is no superally before the last leg of Monte Carlo. The reason for this situation is the decision to take only one spare. It was a calculated risk which didn't pay off. Such is life.Quote:
Originally Posted by doubled1978
FIA/WRC should delete that stupid Monte exception rule or whatever it is, that retiring on Saturday means no re-start on Sunday.
Yes, the reason is that there isn't enough room in Monaco or whatever..
At that point P1(and even P2) drivers must be able to continue on Sunday.. They are the ones that bring money and fans to rallying.
Problem is that the purpose is partly lost when people who have more punctures than ok wheels try to drive on it anyway and first get disqualified in service. (Tanak here, that guy on Canarias, Solberg in Hungary).Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Maybe FIA will try to ammend the rule to 4 inflated tires or even start checking/forcing it after stage ends.
I was actuallt thinking, that maybe there some solution like just "put/clue/attach some layer of rubber on the rim" and nurse your car to service with that.
No, because without the rule everyone did that not just one or two guys per event. Also they were naturally risking more with taking less spare tyres.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
There is really nobody else to blame than Tänak himself here. He knew the rules and the risks, he took only one spare tyres and he picked two punctures. It's not some bad evil FIA who made a mistake here.
The rules has been around for like forever and plenty of drivers retired because of that. Why is there suddenly such fuzz when it happens to Tänak and not when it happened to countless others before?Quote:
Originally Posted by meh
To me it doesn't matter if it was Tänak, Ogier, Evans, Neuville or anybody else.. One of the top drivers is out for possible PS points on Sunday because some Monte-Carlo gets to make some €xception to FIA regulations..
What about some special lightweight space saver spare that is mandatory to have in cars(for using on liaison only) + 1 or 2 proper spares to use on stages..?
It's not suddenly. It's stupid to loose competitor from competition because car is not valid for "overhead part" of the competition. From my point of view they may carry those cars on another car from one stage end to another stage start or service. It's more question - at the moment driving on public roads is part of the competition. Yes, it have been always like that, but rules have not been always there to give impact to rally results.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Imagine then some privateer who spends huge amount of his own money to participate in Monte, drives OK pace in this difficult rally and then can't start on Sunday because some factory driver made a risk to go only with one spare tire, gets 2 punctures and still can drive on Sunday only because he is factory driver...Quote:
Originally Posted by TypeR
Of course, and I agree that would be unfair given the current rules, but also this rule for only 50 cars in MC is also stupid. I know everyone knows the rules etc etc.....that’s not the point. The same thing happened to Mikkelsen in Australia, and to me it’s stupid that cars are retired from a rally, or have to super rally because they can’t fit a tyre to complete a non competitive section. Not only does it diminish the competition, but spectators and viewers and losing cars to watch for shit reason that’s easily solved for tiny cost.Quote:
Originally Posted by br21
So what would´ve been best solution, if not give them a wheel so they can reach SP? We discuss how to make WRC more friendly to new viewers/fans, at the same time as we DO like when the field goes like ten tin soldiers or whatever the international saying is (don´t want to give the swedish version...)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
It´s ridicoulus punish cars that managed stages but not liasons bcs of lack of wheels.
So you´re stuck with "rules are rules" and in another topic like to discuss the future of WRC, blind enough not to see the hippocracy...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
I would say it's more likely ACM's decision, not FIA or WRC Promoter. In Tänak's case it would have been possible to continue since the car was intact and in service park. But usually the car is stopped along a stage somewhere, it needs to be hauled back to Gap, fixed, and then driven to Monaco and making it to parc ferme in time is not possible. And I guess they need to know which 50 cars are coming to Monaco...Quote:
Originally Posted by TypeR
It's crazy, some people say that super rally has ruined rallying because the routes should be completed in order to score points. Then there's one overnight break in the whole season when you cannot do super rally and instantly get other people complaining...
But he could take two spares and no problem then. That's the reason why others took two. He took risk and he was aware of it.
If he will have 3 punctures you can complain, but with two with such road conditions it was nothing special.
Everyone knows the rules and then it's about risk management. He was aware of it, that's why he stopped on the stage to change slow puncture for rim only and then did opposite after the stage. But road section was too long, etc.
That's normal, this is well known that even with best wrc car driving on 3 wheels won't be successful
Following your way of thinking then same would happen if you finish stage with broken radiator but can't reach service. So there should be someone waiting with radiators at the end of the stage?
Or similar with fuel? You finish the stage but then not enough fuel to reach service, so what then, refuel from special van?
You can take two wheels and be in same situation. It´s not about that.
I say it again. Remake the rules. Take action to ACM to follow common WRC organizers rules.
And finally, give the competitors a wheel if necessary after last stage to be able to get home to SP. With only 4-5 top drivers you don´t want to loose anyone because of these ridicoulus rules.
It doesn't have to be a puncture.. can be accident or other issue, that could be repaired in service..Quote:
Originally Posted by br21
but yes, I can imagine that. Everybody need money to rally, some more, some less.
Teams in WRC class pay hundreds of thousands for entry fees and tens of millions to build cars etc.. so yes, they may have some advantages.
Whataboutism...Quote:
Originally Posted by br21
And again, elsewhere people complain that rallies are too similar with each other...:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Who prevented Tänak to take second spare tyre like Ogier did?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper