[WRC] News & Rumours 2018

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27th February 2018, 14:41
Fast Eddie WRC

If Ogier loses the 2018 Championship by a few points it could be said that running first in Sweden cost him the Title. Is that fair, will it give the new champion credibility as the best ?
27th February 2018, 15:00
focus206

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

If Ogier loses the 2018 Championship by a few points it could be said that running first in Sweden cost him the Title. Is that fair, will it give the new champion credibility as the best ?

I don't see how is that unfair. If there wasn't as much snow, he would have been fine with it. A lot of snow? Well, tough luck, it happens. He wasn't the only one to suffer from it, Latvala and Tanak had a hard time dealing with it as well. In Mexico it's Neuville's turn to swipe the road.
27th February 2018, 15:02
Franky

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

If Ogier loses the 2018 Championship by a few points it could be said that running first in Sweden cost him the Title. Is that fair, will it give the new champion credibility as the best ?

Life is a bitch
27th February 2018, 15:07
mknight

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

If Ogier loses the 2018 Championship by a few points it could be said that running first in Sweden cost him the Title. Is that fair, will it give the new champion credibility as the best ?

If he didn't win Monte he wouldn't have to go first in Sweden... but wouldn't have so many points from Monte.

With different rules he maybe wouldn't start first in Sweden... but that means he also wouldn't start first on Monte. If he didn't start first in in Monte he'd loose some time during first leg due to gravel on the road... and that means he'd not run as "last" WRC in the snow on Saturday and wouldn't be able to get 1 min up on Tanak and 30s on Latvala.

...
Should we go on like this for every rally?
27th February 2018, 15:37
Mirek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

If Ogier loses the 2018 Championship by a few points it could be said that running first in Sweden cost him the Title. Is that fair, will it give the new champion credibility as the best ?

Yes, of course. The one who copes with the circumstances best is the best.
27th February 2018, 16:29
Simmi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

If Ogier loses the 2018 Championship by a few points it could be said that running first in Sweden cost him the Title. Is that fair, will it give the new champion credibility as the best ?

13-round championship Eddie.
27th February 2018, 16:38
steve.mandzij

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

If Ogier loses the 2018 Championship by a few points it could be said that running first in Sweden cost him the Title. Is that fair, will it give the new champion credibility as the best ?

100% fair. Sainz and Hirvonen lost titles to mechanical failures, and that was fair. Latvala's car killed itself three times in a row while he was in the championship fight, and that was fair. There was a dusting of snow on the stages in Sweden, and that was fair.

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27th February 2018, 17:06
N.O.T

just a friendly reminder... you are arguing with british people....

you can continue now...
27th February 2018, 19:42
Timmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve.mandzij

100% fair. Sainz and Hirvonen lost titles to mechanical failures, and that was fair. Latvala's car killed itself three times in a row while he was in the championship fight, and that was fair. There was a dusting of snow on the stages in Sweden, and that was fair.

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What you are doing is comparing something that can't be foreseen to something that could be avoided by adjusting the rules.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AL14

I think there are a couple of things we are not giving the right attention

1) Rules does not penalize always the same driver, they penalize the first crew in the general ranking.

2) Rules does not penalize always the crew who open the road. As said before Monte, Germany, Corsica, Galles, Sweden with few snow and every gravel rally with rain are an advantage for that crew. It means that in almost 5 events out of 13 there is not a penalization. It is 40% of the whole championship, it's not exceptional.
The difference is that at these events nobody at the end of the road order is crying the hell out of him at the end of the stages.

3) As we all said Sweden was exceptional, in normal condition on gravel rallies the leading driver will sufer from road order mainly in the first 3 stages of the first leg. Friday afternoon is quite better and on saturday the situation is much more balanced. In 2014, Ogier was capable to win a lot of events with these rules, even Sardinia.

The fact that it doesn't always penalize the same driver is irrelevant. The fact that the first crew in general ranking, whoever they might be, is getting the short end of the stick is where the problem lies.
Albeit Sweden was an extreme case it did shift the focus a little to the bigger underlying problem in my eyes.
If there is something that can be done to improve the current system then it should be done.

To N.O.T - If it's targeted at me, then no, I'm not British. I don't see why it would matter anyhow. Is there a saying I'm not aware of?
27th February 2018, 20:00
N.O.T

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmy

To N.O.T - If it's targeted at me, then no, I'm not British. I don't see why it would matter anyhow. Is there a saying I'm not aware of?

no kid it wasn't.

but it would matter a lot if you were... it would explain a lot as well....
27th February 2018, 20:49
stefanvv

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirek

Actually not. Current rules are fair as well - simply because they are given and fixed well ahead so everyone knows how they work. They make it tougher for the leading crew for sure but for every leading crew. It doesn't matter which one it is at the given moment. They have to cope with the same conditions - and that is fair.

Fair to who? For the 15% of the current wrc drivers who can actually lead the championship for the first 2-3 rallies, or fair to the rest of them 85% so they can have a chance to win a rally or 2? Just the drivers know how the rules are ahead doesn't make them fair. Or You suggest who doesn't like to rules just to quit? May be its bit extreme, but what lies under the "fair" concept? Everybody are under the same rules, yes sure, but that doesn't make them fair for the ones who are actually are already on top of the board. It is uneven handicap for them.

Current WRC cars rules already are enough equalizing all drivers, why we need to stick with these ancient running order rules? The sport needs refreshing, the 1st part - cars is already done, the other must come accordingly.
27th February 2018, 20:49
Mirek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmy

The fact that the first crew in general ranking, whoever they might be, is getting the short end of the stick is where the problem lies.

In rallying everytime someone has to get the short end off the stick. Everytime. Do You really believe that it's better idea to make the life even worse for those who struggle even without it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by stefanvv

Fair to who? For the 15% of the current wrc drivers who can actually lead the championship for the first 2-3 rallies, or fair to the rest of them 85% so they can have a chance to win a rally or 2? Just the drivers know how the rules are ahead doesn't make them fair. Or You suggest who doesn't like to rules just to quit? May be its bit extreme, but what lies under the "fair" concept? Everybody are under the same rules, yes sure, but that doesn't make them fair for the ones who are actually are already on top of the board. It is uneven handicap for them.

Someone has to take the handicap. There is no way how to avoid that. Do You believe that those who struggle even without that shall bear the handicap to have zero chance instead of at least some chance? Tell me why is that better and why it's more fair.
27th February 2018, 21:03
stefanvv

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirek

Someone has to take the handicap. There is no way how to avoid that. Do You believe that those who struggle even without that shall bear the handicap to have zero chance instead of at least some chance? Tell me why is that better and why it's more fair.

You know I'm big supporter of the underdogs. But is it fair to them to take some advantage, because the faster ones are handicapped? How is that in their favor, and how is that in favor of the spectators? Just because they like variety in the winner board. Then they don't understand the sport and just watching the show?!?
27th February 2018, 21:09
Mirek

Quote:

Originally Posted by stefanvv

You know I'm big supporter of the underdogs. But is it fair to them to take some advantage, because the faster ones are handicapped? How is that in their favor, and how is that in favor of the spectators? Just because they like variety in the winner board. Then they don't understand the sport and just watching the show?!?

A qeuestion is not an answer. Why is it more fair to chose the slow guys everytime instead of the fast guys sometimes (current rules don't penalize them in every round)?
27th February 2018, 21:36
Franky

Any news or rumours?
27th February 2018, 21:40
stefanvv

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirek

A qeuestion is not an answer.

It was a rhetoric. You know we just keep asking ourselves the same stupid question, and the answer is in the question.
28th February 2018, 07:14
Timmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirek

In rallying everytime someone has to get the short end off the stick. Everytime. Do You really believe that it's better idea to make the life even worse for those who struggle even without it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirek

A qeuestion is not an answer. Why is it more fair to chose the slow guys everytime instead of the fast guys sometimes (current rules don't penalize them in every round)?

It's hard to make sense of your arguments here. Rallying isn't a kindergarten sports day where everybody should get a prize just for attending.
You want to be at the top? Work for it!
Since the cars are so closely matched and the top drivers are as close as ever, the old rules are just taking away from the excitement and the fight.
28th February 2018, 07:45
ESTR

True. And they get payed for that a lot more than we make in our jobs. So it's right that it should be hard. It's worth it.
28th February 2018, 08:05
Mirek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmy

Since the cars are so closely matched and the top drivers are as close as ever, the old rules are just taking away from the excitement and the fight.

It's the rules You fight against which makes it look like that.
28th February 2018, 15:22
steve.mandzij

When the same driver has been winning titles for the past five years with all the methods you people propose you notice there's no need for change. The best win regardless.

Also, QS, while fair, made for very dull 2013-2015(?) seasons for anyone not a VW fan. 2016 was a total witchunt against Ogier and he still won the title comfortably. Just because he had a bad rally doesn't mean the rules are wrong. You wouldn't bring back the rule that eliminates the lowest score, would you?

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28th February 2018, 18:30
seb_sh

Too much talk about this. We've tried all options and the current rules are the most balanced imo. The only thing they need to change is to apply the penalty for starting late to the stage time instead of directly to the overall, that way they close the loophole for the power stage.
28th February 2018, 18:51
Andre Oliveira

Why not a rule to 30kg extra to Seb Ogier?
28th February 2018, 18:57
tommeke_B

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira

Why not a rule to 30kg extra to Seb Ogier?

Loeb had it too, in the codrivers seat. Didn't help much. :D
28th February 2018, 19:15
A FONDO

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommeke_B

Loeb had it too, in the codrivers seat. Didn't help much. :D

But he is too short himself so both together are average total weight.
28th February 2018, 19:16
seb_sh

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommeke_B

Loeb had it too, in the codrivers seat. Didn't help much. :D

but it was useful that one time in Mexico!
28th February 2018, 23:47
racerx1979

Quote:

Originally Posted by ESTR

True. And they get payed for that a lot more than we make in our jobs. So it's right that it should be hard. It's worth it.

Also means they worked a lot harder than those who make less :)
1st March 2018, 00:34
stefanvv

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEdncmqV6VY
1st March 2018, 04:13
GravelBen

Quote:

Originally Posted by racerx1979

Also means they worked a lot harder than those who make less :)

Not necessarily, hard work helps but plenty of people work their asses off for much less because of circumstances outside their control.
1st March 2018, 04:58
Toyoda

I suspect the likes of Paddon, Breen, Evans Suninen, Lappi won't be making much TBH
1st March 2018, 05:49
racerx1979

Quote:

Originally Posted by GravelBen

Not necessarily, hard work helps but plenty of people work their asses off for much less because of circumstances outside their control.

Well ESTR is saying rally drivers get paid a lot more so their work should be hard. What I am saying is they are getting paid more because they put a lot of effort and time to get to where they are. That goes with anything in life. Nobody can force you to do anything or control you unless you let them.
1st March 2018, 05:57
ESTR

Quote:

Originally Posted by racerx1979

Well ESTR is saying rally drivers get paid a lot more so their work should be hard. What I am saying is they are getting paid more because they put a lot of effort and time to get to where they are. That goes with anything in life. Nobody can force you to do anything...

Well that's why Ogi is complaining if he doesn't get his 10 million on his paycheck. Try working on a post and you will see that you will die your ass out for what.. For nothing. And with so many people behind all these drivers I think that they are the kings and they do what they really want.
1st March 2018, 06:18
AnttiL

I haven't been following this discussion anymore for a while...the latest idea is to use the payroll thickness to decide the starting order?
1st March 2018, 17:28
Rallyper

So guys, any news or rumours lately?
1st March 2018, 18:00
stefanvv

FIA intend to punish Ogier for his arrogance at Rally Sweden by put him at the back of the start order each rally to the rest of the season.
1st March 2018, 18:24
Fast Eddie WRC

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simmi

13-round championship Eddie.

But Sweden has affected the Championship through its own rules and it's own actions or inactions. The other 12 wont.
1st March 2018, 19:12
steve.mandzij

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

But Sweden has affected the Championship through its own rules and it's own actions or inactions. The other 12 wont.

How are you so certain? I'm not quite getting how weather can be deemed unfair and a reason for a rule change. Unforseen weather events are a part of rally as much as retiring to unpreventable circumstances.

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1st March 2018, 19:20
N.O.T

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve.mandzij

How are you so certain?

see post 1013 for all the answers you are looking for kid....
2nd March 2018, 06:00
Hartusvuori

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

But Sweden has affected the Championship through its own rules and it's own actions or inactions. The other 12 wont.

As far as I know Rally Sweden was ran according to FIA's regulations for WRC events. Championship leader runs first on day 1, as usual. Weather can change, as usual. Weather can be charasteristic to the location, as usual. WRC events run national events between WRC stages, as usual.
2nd March 2018, 06:08
GravelBen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

But Sweden has affected the Championship through its own rules and it's own actions or inactions. The other 12 wont.

Did you really just say the other 12 rounds won't affect the championship?

https://media.giphy.com/media/Zb4Cwdpub5g0U/giphy.gif
2nd March 2018, 11:22
Fast Eddie WRC

Quote:

Originally Posted by GravelBen

Did you really just say the other 12 rounds won't affect the championship?

Not in the same way, smartass.

Name me another rally that has or will disadvantage the first car so badly and for so long ?

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