It's not official yet (only next Wednesday) but is almost certain that the Rally of Portugal will move north in 2015. Stages like Arganil, Fafe and Ponte de Lima will be back next year!
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It's not official yet (only next Wednesday) but is almost certain that the Rally of Portugal will move north in 2015. Stages like Arganil, Fafe and Ponte de Lima will be back next year!
Why was Mikkelsen using some kind of earplug on Poland?
I've seen on the WRC Poland review when he finished one stage and took his helmet off and had those earplugs that usually (at least) here in Brazil are used by circuit drivers because of the noise.
I am not so sure that Toyota will demand hybrid regulations.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
TMG (earlier TTE) has a strong passion and tradition for rally, and I know that they really would like to do a comeback in the WRC.
If it was up to TMG allone I would guess that they would happily run a non-hybrid WRC-car. But TMG has to sell its project in to Toyota HQ.
Toyota HQ needs to see a clear marketing benefit, with a good ROI.
TMGs arguments could be that if they run a non-hybrid WRC-car, they could get a lot of PR for a reasonable amount of money, because the WRC cars of today are so "cheap" to develop and run.
If Toyota HQ agrees to this they allready have an almost finished WRC-car.
If on the other hand Toyota will demand a hybrid, the project would take on a whole different approach regarding the budget strategy. This would be much more expensive, but also "worth" more if Toyota can make the hybrid technology perform in the rough enviroment of rallying.
Hmmm...
Regardless of strategy, lets hope Toyota will return to the WRC. Toyota has a lot of fans around the world that would like to se them back in to the WRC.
I actually think we actually have started surfing on a positive wave in regards to rallying. The IRC has a huge potential with factory- and semi-factory-teams in both 4WD and 2WD.
Several factories like Peugeot, Citroën, Skoda, Renault and Opel run motorsport departments who make a profit on developing and selling rallycars (this is VERY important, so ROI is not only meassured in PR value).
Volkwsagen and Hyundai in to the WRC is of cource very positive (regardless of a shootout or not), (lets hope Citroën stays). The possibility of Toyota enetring is VERY good. All this will force the covarega and promoting to be better, wich then again will create interest from more manufacturers and sponsors.
+1 Let´s get the media coverage (TV/Internet/live)on the same level and direction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
If there are hybrids Toyota will be in the WRC as a full Manufacturer entry. If not, they will sell customer R5 Yaris cars....
They want to promote their hybrid technology - as they already do in the WEC with the TS040.
Agree, that's what Toyota might do.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
I dont want hybrid technology in rallysport, at least not now. I want same rules for everybody. And it is difficult to have correct regulations for petrol, diesel or hybrid cars. We can see how this new technologies destroyed WEC...
personally I don't see this negativity you mentioned...there are innovative concepts...I explain...in order to balance out the chances of the different solutions , the rules compensate the inherent advantage of a solution, for example diesel's efficiency.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
so we see diesel race-car with 4wd, NA engine with 2 and 4wd, gasoline-turbo engine etc
there is more freedom and possibility for works team to develop an individual solution
F1 till last year was merely an aerodynamic exercise with engine/chassis solutions blocked (I preferred the NA sound instead of the current generation. Turbo Wrc makes a good sound on the other way )
If hybrid is allowed, it should be regulated to not give a perfomance advantage, because this could start a spending war.Quote:
Originally Posted by manthey
The rallysport at the moment is in a fragile state when it comes to budgets and spending, and is also dependant on semi-proffesional teams and drivers running (Prokop, Kubica, Solberg etc), and drivers like this will struggle to finance their capaign if the cost goes up dramatically.
On the other hand, allowing more differentiated technology (as long as the performance is kept equal) will make the sport a better showcase for the parent brands technology, and therefore be more relevant marketing. Examples:
1) Volkswagen WRC: Diesel Turbo
2) Toyota WRC: Gasoline Hybrid
3) Ford WRC: 1.0 litre gasoline EcoBoost
4) Citroën WRC: Diesel hybrid
This would also allow for different sensory experiences because the cars would sound different to each other. So good for the fans. Andt it would allow for more pinpointed PR-effect for the brands.
But this would off cource be much more expensive than todays solution. Why:
1) You would have to develop more of the technology from the ground up.
2) The cars would become less atractive for potential byuers of used WRC-cars, beqause they would demand a higher running cost, and more spesialized manpower.
So a "perfect" compromise would be to allow the different brands to build their spesific technology, and to litmit the performance so they would match current WRC-cars, so that the manufacturers that would like to go the cheaper route by building a WRC car after todays regulations would not be left behind. Or something like that;)
The problem with hybrids is that it's a technology non-suitable for use by privateers. It's too complicated and it must be extremely costly for private teams. In rallying they also have to work in very rough conditions so I'm a bit afraid of safety. Especially of spectators who push cars back on the road after crashes. That's something not present on circuits. Circuit cars have warning lights showing when marshals/mechanics must not touch them but such warning can not work with a crowd of partly drunk ordinary people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
Destroyed WEC?? Are you being serious.... It's the strongest of the FiA World Championships... With more Manufacturers joining; as it's road relevant technology.
However, the Privateers don't have to use hybrids, as it's too costly. That could be something for the WRC to consider if they went down the hybrid route.
As Mirek has said, the safety issue with hybrids is a concern. They could get around this from banning spectators..... And only having viewing zones... ;) ( I'm only joking)
https://translate.google.com/transla...g%2Findex.html
Very good! More power, all we need now is less friction/grip from the tires, and limited suspension travel, and we have a show!
there is already a sport for you to enjoy...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
http://formulad.com/
no need to implement stupid ideas to the WRC.
Hehe;) "Stupid is what stupid does"Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
I was thinking more in the lines of Group B, but I guess You think that Group B rallying is the lowpoint of the rallysport;)
There are three very important factors that suggests that lowering grip/friction is a good way to go:
1) Safety (lower cornering speeds)
2) Longevity (the tires and cars of today creates so much grip that they are very tough on the roads. This destruction of the roads, both in the WRC and in local rallies (we are of cource talking about gravel) translates in to it being more and more difficult to find roads to arrange rallies on, and more and more expensive to hire/rebuild the roads.)
3) Show (for obvious reasons)
N.O.T. not always knows what we´re talking about Lundefaret. You have a point when it comes to WRC to be more spectacular. Better so than having Superrally and shoot-outs.
So you want more power but lower cornering speeds.... that makes sense... why you want more power then ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
Longenity of the roads is just a joke to use as an excuse... and again how exactly more power is going to add to that ?
And as for show you can visit local village road shows if you consider drifts "show".
More power + less grip from suspension, tyres and diffs would make WRC more spectacular and less like racing lines on forests as it is now. What would be wrong with more show for spectators? The biggest problem of WRC today is not enough spectators (TV mostly). The drifts show probably are more popular than WRC now...Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Strictly technically speaking there is no contradiction in that statement. Cornering speed has nothing to do with power.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
technically speaking yes there is not a contradiction since cornering speed is dependent on traction, but in real life terms when you have 2 corners close to each other the car must have enough power to reach the limit of traction speed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Average Joe wouldn´t notice anyway. He just want rallycars to be more spectacular than today obviously.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
This is the reason today's cars look too perfect and can go so fast effortlessly. Too much traction and not enough power.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-eF_fc4n7MQuote:
Originally Posted by makinen_fan
this clip would beg to differ....
Sorry, but You didn't get what does cornering speed mean. Cornering speed doesn't depend on power (unless the car needs power slide to turn but let's say it behaves perfectly neutral) and it doesn't depend on traction either. The thing Lundefaret speaks about is lateral acceleration which the car can take in the corner. That depends on many factors, mainly weight of the car, center of gravity position, lateral tyre grip level (depending also on tyre sidewall stiffness), suspension setup (mainly rollbars) etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
It's very easily possible to have much more powerful car which is much slower in corners, e.g. Audi Qattro may have double power compared to Fiesta WRC but in the corner it is way slower (must slow down much more before the apex). The cornering speed is what changed dramatically through the years.
cornering speed depends on how much all of the above "blah blah blah look at me how shiny i am" you posted can the tyre take before is starts sliding...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
This is correct, but only for the apex speed that the car can carry in a corner. For the part of a turn after the apex, when the driver applies throttle to accelerate away, you can have two situations. Either traction limited or power limited. For sure for certain corners more power will result to higher corner exit speed (i.e. faster overall corner speed), but in other corners it will have no influence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Actually not. Again same example. Put Michelin Pilot Sport WRC SS2 on Audi Quattro and try to reach same speed in the corner as with Fiesta WRC. You will end on a speed 20 km/h lower or something like that. Or put those same tyres on a stock VW Multivan and try again :)Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Lateral acceleration which the tyre can ideally take is of course same in all cases but the thing is that the real conditions are never same as those ideal laboratory ones and it's the car what makes them different. Therefore even if You have the very same corner and the very same tyres never two different cars can reach absolutely same speed (even if they have same weight).
Cornering speed is not a corner exit speed. Imagine that as a speed on a fixed diameter circle.Quote:
Originally Posted by makinen_fan
actually yes... you are just using more words for it... and if you are a physicist i can relate to you trying to explain things using a more accurate description... if you are not you are just a smartass trying to explain things in acomplicated way yourself cannot even grasp completely.
I know, but this it the theoretical ideal situation that never happens in reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
But then you can have a situation like this that an underpowered car cannot utilise all of its traction, (because you need power to keep a constant speed around a circle, consider the velocity vector of car turning) if the constant radius circle is large enough... so power does matter
You're talking about tarmac stages on Cyprus kind of show, aren't You? Well, I prefer fast tarmac cars anyway, but that's only me.
Actually it is very valuable to cut every complex phenomena into less complicated fundamental processes. If You don't do that You end with a huge equation with million of unknowns for every measurable output.Quote:
Originally Posted by makinen_fan
You need very little power to keep constant speed (in rallying limits), basically only to equalize drag, rolling resistance and power looses in transmission. Every vehicle can reach it's limiting lateral acceleration (or cornering speed on given radius). It doesn't need to be at 200 km/h. It can be at 30 km/h if it's a tight hairpin. Even a tractor can turn so hard that it can't keep a line of constant radius. In the end it really matters if You can do the circle at 28 km/h or at 32 km/h because that is from what You start the power-related process.Quote:
Originally Posted by makinen_fan
http://www.rally.it/rally-del-portogallo-verso-il-nord/ if the date move further ahead in the calendar maybe Argentina will be earlier and then we will get the rain there.:)
Now it's official, Rally Portugal 2015 willbe held in the north of the country with Matosinhos city being the HQ for the rally.
I hope for an epic event!
Oh my god :) They wake up one sleeping giant. Same old stages, same old passion, but with better organazition. It will be epic :) Can't wait for June 2015.
If "Lousada" means SSS of Costilha Eurocircuit (former ERX track) then, for sure, will be epic :) Nothing like stadiums or streets kids SSS.
This is actually VERY GOOD!
One thing the WRC-promotors has done to get in more money in the short term, but cutting interest in the long run, is in my opinion to stage WRC-rounds in places where there are no spectators, and next to none interest. Jordan etc.
Northern Portugal is absolutely crazy, in a very very good way, and will be a huge asset.
Rallying is very big in Eastern Europe, so the WRC-calendar should reflect this. The same with the Nordic countries. Classics such as Corsica and Monte Carlo are very important, and also making new classics in places that people actually care. This is what builds interest.
To have a succesfull WRC-round in a new market/country, requiers that You build up the interest from the ground up. By both helping the national organizers of the national series, but also letting the countrie get TV-rights,a nd making the TV-broadcasts as spectacular as possible. When one feels that there is enough interest, well then one can stage a WRC-event.
This should be put to the test in Norther America/USA, where the rallying interest is steadily growing, but where one lacks the experience/means to really make it big.
Factory teams should visit a round with a WRC driver/car (ex Volkswagen, who is in the market), to create further interest.
In norhern Portugal the interest for rallying and the WRC-event has epic proportions, and this is places we need to be. Very good!
i20 for 2015
hyundai will unveil new wrc on next October @ Paris motor Show
interview to Nandan
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/114892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
Lundis pojken, intresset i USA has always been "growing" It's been "growing" since I started back in Sten-åldern i '84.. Back then our population in country was 233 million and we had total maybe 320 individuals enter an event in the whole country.. Now we have 312 million , and I heard we have 322 individuals who enter a rally..Steady growth.
One of our better organisers like to analyze things and he studied the constant growing interest i Amerika and found 27% of drivers do ONE event and are never seen again and 43% do 3 events total...
Yep interest is growing...
Thatäs what everybody keeps saying...I read it on a forum so it must be true.
What America needs above all is a visit from some good F+cup guys, and some Swedish GrpH and maybe a couple of you Norskies if you promise to bring 240 Volvbo or maybe some Escorts...
There was seriously some excitment when we had visit from Ozzie boy Brendon Reeves visited last year and was doing SS times right behind ''America's Rally Super Star'' Ben Clock....by US standards really wonderful aggressive driving which ''nobody could believe''...He was in a nice spec FWD Fiesta 1600 sug motor.
We need some better yardstick of what the ORDINARY is, not what one or 2 WRC guys can do when they have million dollar per event budget...
We need-----as per-centage av befolkningen---- 1/10 the participation you have i Norden..
When our interest has grown to that level, we can re-visit if we need what one guy here calls "the Dubya Arse-y"
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes...l#.U8ENz5SSyUY a bit of old news but let's hope TMG will follow through.