Yes, but in this light I absolutely don´t understand skipping Valais again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martins Tolks
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Yes, but in this light I absolutely don´t understand skipping Valais again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martins Tolks
It was repeated numerously that the problem with Valais is on communication basis. The cooperation between the organizer and FIA/promoter doesn't work smoothly at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by WUff1
Then, on behalf of people interested in the event, in your championship, in rallying..... for heaven's sake make it work.
I know it's not 'that' simple, but communicating enough to be a 'reserve' event but not a 'full' one defies much belief, especially as it's an event that's been run so many times before, successfully.
Back to the thread.
IRC was an exceptional attempt to sort out a an alternative international rally series directed to manufacturers. It worked during WRC troubled years but since 2011, as FIA managed to get a decent WRC revamp, IRC was no more needed.
Today, ERC must be seen as a regional series directed to european drivers (pro and amateurs) and teams. Of course manus should continue to support top pro teams, but full works entries aren't reasonable any more.
In order to get top drivers and pro teams Eurosport just need to downscale ERC and promote it as the best regional series available, because ERC can be the perfect top rallying experience for wealthy amateurs or 2nd level pros, and the most convenient leverage for young drivers with a real ambition to get into WRC!
I think if they want more teams and not only privateers competing next year they should use the current WRC cars as the top class of ERC, as next year the WRC cars will be more powerfull. To my opinion it would draw much more attention, as this year we don't have Skoda or Peugeot as teams over in the ERC 'cause WRC2 is more important/interesting? anyhow that's my opinion, please feel free to disagree:)
Watched the highlights last night, and I can't work out what the ERC is for. Some great events, great scenery, fantastic heli-shots - but the usual 30 min highlights late at night.
It could, and should be better - but what do you do with it? I still don't think Eurosport are doing enough - but that's to be expected really.
They could do so much more with it. Just watched the highlights on UK Eurosport, on at 12.30am, hardly gonna capture a bigger audience this way. The U.K. Commentator is awful, Carlton Kirby, keeps pronouncing the names wrong. I really don't believe Eurosport care about it, which makes me wander why they became the promoters...Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
Michal Hrabanek told in latest issue of Motorsportmonday that there’s two reason why Skoda is WRC2 instead of ERC.
http://digital.motorsportmonday.com//launch.aspx?eid=5861e3ed-ab6c-46e5-adc1-c8f504be4b1c (page 63)
1. Speeding up the development of the Fabia R5. WRC2 events are more demanding technologically than ERC.
2. No manufacturer championship in ERC.
Interesting information.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldF
I had wondered about the manufacturers championship - not that there is much publicity for it in WRC2 but at least it's something Skoda can promote if they win.
Another interesting point against ERC is that there is no event in France, Italy or Germany (important markets for Skoda)
Other points from the interview - Kopecky, Lappi and Tidemand will get the same number of events in WRC2, and Hrabanek thinks Fabia is still on the same level as the Fiesta Evo.
Still, I am disappointed there is not a greater Skoda presence in ERC, at least with some satellite team. The publicity of winning events outright and better tv would be good for them.
No one cares about rallying in France. Only Monte and Tour de Corse - since they are back in WRC- had small interest by the non-motorsport medias.
Fore sure, ERC in France would have no impact on the press. And I guess that's more or less the same in Germany ... maybe not in Italy ?
So I don't think that's one of the reason for Skoda withdrawal.
Why are the broadcasts so late? I'll try to work back from the broadcast start time and you might get part of the answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by markf8691
12.30 am - Broadcast time
21.30 - File is uploaded/downloaded to the TV station server for ingestion, preferably not less than 3 hours before transmission
20.30 - Start of upload. Let's say file is 20GB and average upload speed is 10MB/s. Estimated upload time 35 minutes.
19.30 - Start of exporting the TV programme
18.37 - First car enters the evening service
17.35 - Start of the last stage
I haven't watched the programme yet and I do not know the exact workflow of the ERC TV programme production, so all the values are just estimations. But you can see that there really isn't much time between the beginning of video export and the start of the last stage.
Today the last service is in 2,5 hours earlier than yesterday and also the TV guide shows the Eurosport event review programme is 2 hours earlier than yesterday.
Really? Even with Loeb, Ogier, Citroën, Peugeot, Camili...Quote:
Originally Posted by vino_93
I think 'No one cares about rallying in France' still means there's a lot more interest there than in a lot of other countries.
In Italy not even the Italian WRC round has impact on the press, no chance for an ERC one...Quote:
Originally Posted by vino_93
Reading these comments it seems as if nobody cares about rallying anywhere (apart from maybe Finland and Czech Republic)
Well, all European countries have rally fans, but the non-specialistic press and the Average Joes don't care for sure... I guess that's what we mean when saying "nobody cares about rallying here"Quote:
Originally Posted by RS
Thats my impression. Certainly as far as the UK goes it's not great. Last weekend was a pretty quiet one for Motorsport; yet neither the BRC or WRC events made much impression on the popular Motorsport forums. F1, BTCC, Sportscars, bikes are all far more popular.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS
Maybe we must question, what's wrong with rallying not being the most popular sport, and not most covered in newspaper? Also, could events (especially WRC ones) still handle much more spectators and keep it safe at the same time? Remember what happened in the 80s when rallying became too popular... Times have changed but I think the same still applies. In crowded events we can see it's often impossible to maintain the safety for spectators... Anyway I think rallying as a sport is too complex to be appealing to the general public. Rallying has a relatively small but very dedicated audience, there aren't so many sport disciplines that make so many people travel to see it live (be it inside a country or around the world). :)
Precisely that should be the job of the promotor. The promotor should be doing everything to get the ERC in the various medias.Quote:
Originally Posted by vino_93
But okay, that would require a lot of work and the benefits only appear in a long time. Apparently that is not in Eurosports mind at the moment...
Sorry, but I think this is a ridiculous statement. Rallying exists solely because of spectator interest. On the one hand because the sport is heavily financed by sponsors and on the other hand because city councils only allow permits for rallies because of the public interest. I do not think many rallies would continue if spectators were banned.Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
It is a big mistake to think the 'general public' is stupid. They can understand rallying perfectly well, it is not that complicated after all. It is not about knowing about it, it is about caring about it. For example, I know of the existence of Volleyball, I know the basic rules, I know it is very popular, but I simply do not care about it so I won't follow it. Ultimately it is the promotors job to get people to start caring about rallying.Quote:
Anyway I think rallying as a sport is too complex to be appealing to the general public. Rallying has a relatively small but very dedicated audience, there aren't so many sport disciplines that make so many people travel to see it live (be it inside a country or around the world). :)
Loeb's dominance destroyed sport. Who wants the same winner for nine years?! And now there's another one for three years...
I'm not saying spectators should be banned, I'll never write that. Without spectators there wouldn't be any sport, for sure not on the level we have now. I do ask the question if organizers could handle much more spectators... ;) Maybe not a big issue for well organized events like Portugal (nowadays) or Finland, but for events like Monte Carlo and Poland it's a very different story.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lousada
The sport being too complex has nothing to do with people being not smart enough for it. It's just a sport that people don't have any feeling with. A sport like football, cycling or tennis is something that almost everybody has once done themselves (mostly for fun or at school etc), they can relate to it more. Practicing anything that comes close to rallying is pretty much illegal everywhere, now more than ever before... Also when you are watching on the stage you can enjoy the spectacle but you don't see who is leading. How many popular sports can you spectate without knowing who is winning the game? Then there are different classes who change every couple of years. Time penalties, Rally2, powerstage, many rules that are changing very often. Just admit that it's a more complex sport to follow than most other popular sports, especially for somebody who is new with it. Oh, and I didn't know volleyball is so popular. ;)
I love rallying, and spend almost all my holidays for it. And it would be nice to see and read more about it in the everyday news, and to see more effort/money being put in the sport from governments and sponsors, but I don't see the potential for it to become one of the most popular sports. And the promotors job... I don't think any promotor (Eurosport or RBMH) is doing a decent job at the moment. Eurosport was doing very well with IRC a few years ago but it seems like they forgot all of it... :(
Yes really. Of course, people know Loeb and Citroën. I guess, they know Ogier ... but less than Loeb.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS
With the retirement of Loeb, rally has lost a lot of media attention. Therefore, when you were watching the news, you regularly have the result of Loeb - at least when he won or crashed, and he won a lot :)
But now, except the sport media who talked a bit - a little bit - of rallying, it came back to zero ground of media attention.
Don't forget that France isn't a motorsport country. There's more and more people who don't like cars - and it has a lot of media attention, so motorsports ...
But fortunately, there's still a lot of people who likes rallying. But it's a bit like motocross : strong community of fan, investing of lot of time in their passion, but with no global attention from the others. And with more and more difficulties to achieve it.
No way! In my opinion you are completely wrong. Rallying is probably the most complicated sport that I know. Can you imagine - I have been following this sport for more than 20 years and now, in 2016, I don't understand the rules anymore!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lousada
I'll give you an example. In Rally Islas Canarias Polish driver Lukasz Habaj (Peugeot 208 R2) won the classification of ERC3. That should normally mean that he was the fastest driver in a front-wheel-driven car. But was he? I look at the results and see some FWD-cars in front of him! How is that possible? It's a Spanish driver in Honda Civic. Now I'm wondering, what car is it? Is it a group A car or a group N car? No idea. Is it a full R3 car (Honda Civic Type R R3)? No idea. Why was he faster than Habaj, but didn't win ERC3? I'm looking for an answer and what do I find? The Spanish driver was competeing in the ERC round, but WASN'T CLASSIFIED IN THIS ERC ROUND! How is it possible? I'm looking for an answer and what do I find? He was classified in Spanish championship round only! Is that not idiotic? I look further up in the results and what do I see? A Spanish driver in Suzuki Swift Super 1600! He was faster than Habaj, has a FWD car, but didn't win ERC3. How is that possible? I'm looking for an answer and what do I find? This Spanish driver was competeing in the ERC round, but WASN'T CLASSIFIED IN THIS ERC ROUND! I look further up in the results and what do I find? A driver who was competeing in the ERC round, but WASN'T CLASSIFIED IN THIS ERC ROUND! A driver who was competeing in the Spanish championship round, but WASN'T CLASSIFIED IN THIS SPANISH CHAMPIONSHIP ROUND! He was classified in Canarian championship round and he was driving a car that was prepared against the rules of the FIA! And I think he actually won the rally, but is not a winner! Can you even understand it?
Now try to explain it to someone outside of motorsport. I already have a headache.
I understand your point of view, but small correction. Habaj won ERC3 category, which is not the same as to win in 2WD on the event. Winner of this event in 2WD was not your mentioned spanish driver with Honda, but Surhayen Pernía, Of course he was classified in ERC, he finished 9th overall and he received points into ERC. Of course, he didnt won ERC3 as he was not registered. Your mentioned driver with Swift S1600 was driving ONLY in national field, he was not doing ERC event, so he can be classified only in national championship...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
Yes, you are right. And your post only confirms everything that I said above. Rallying is too complicated to be followed by a normal person.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
Like I wrote in my post, I understand your view and I completely agree. Rallying is in basic too complicated to understand and rules are making it also more difficult...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
As I always say to persons who are not so much in to rally - circuit races is like a pop-music where everybody understand everything. Rally is a classical music. You must learn to understand it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
But they don't do much to make it steady and understable, do they?
I believe ERC's main problem is it is lacking a lineup of drivers fighting for it. How many regulars? How many of those are really competitive? ERC rallyes live upon the local drivers. But in order to be classified in ERC table charts they have to pay a substancial higher entrance fee than the one they would pay to enter the national or regional rally. A little bit of a contrasense, isn't it? And sometimes the cars are not elligible because they are built under national specifications which are different from one country to another.
ERC is today, more than a rally championship, a business and it is rulled as one.
ERC and IRC was always build on local drivers. Also in golden era of IRC, there were only few regulars which were doing all events (and it was mainly because of manufacturers). This is how it is and this will never change. Rally world is different now and WRC championship is much stronger. There are some regulars doing more events in ERC and there are still nice fights on all events...
Erc has got tough comp from BRC this year.
Much cheaper.
What will erc do?
BRC isn't any kind of competition of ERC. It's national championship and no matter how good it is it's simply a diffrent playground.
Anyway I can see the only way to wake the ERC up by changing the promoter. It's obvious that Eurosport Events/Discovery isn't intrested in rallying anymore.
Is anybody else interested in rallying these days?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
Of course they are! But I do think there has been a 'drop off' in interest compared to 10-15-20 years ago. There's a whole raft of reasons why. But the top events do draw huge crowds....
As for the ERC - as Mirek has said, Eurosport/ Discovery don't seem interested. When was the last time there was live action??
If you want the ERC to be a stepping stone to the WRC, then you really need the same Promoter. Then they can work together to help both series; and if you must have rotation, then you could swap events between ERC/ WRC...if needed.
Well, RBMH isn't doing exactly excellent job either to take on both WRC and ERC
No chance. There is no promoter who can take care sufficiently about one championship. To be responsible for two different championships is nonsense...Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
When manufacturers were involved in. And when there were more money on side of organisers. And to say the truth, lot of organisers dont want to have live stages...Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
Why not?Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
Money?Quote:
Originally Posted by RS
Money. If you want to have live, it costs some money. And sponsors are not interested in paying extra money for it. And on the other hand - lot of events needs spectators in service and stages. They are bringing them money (by tickets, selling programmes, goods etc), also sponsors are interested to see lot of spectators around the stages than "only in TV"...