Rally Sweden 2023

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11th February 2023, 16:41
meh

Today - Only:
1. Neuville
2. Rovanperä +9.5
3. Tänak +10.5 (puncture, + slow down because Lappi)
4. Breen +21.7 (puncture, + slow down because Lappi)
5. Evans +443
11th February 2023, 16:41
dupanton

Quote:

Originally Posted by EstWRC

What issue?

Hybrid according to Abiteboul
11th February 2023, 17:03
becher

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mise

I think finnish cmore analytics gave the answer:
Jari Ketomaa said that Pirelli's studs are installed when the melted rubber is casted so the studs won't get off.
Riku Tahko said that normally when the studs go off you know the tyre is not good anymore and you need to slow down cause no grip.

When you think about those two analyses you get the answer.
The studs don't get off since they are casted and the driwers won't slow down so the the tyre just gets too much stress to the lamination
so that peels off.

EDIT: I'm not an engineer so this can be way off the truth.

Thought the same, instead of just losing the studs, when the studs go they damage the tyre which then leads to the failiures.
11th February 2023, 17:17
Fast Eddie WRC

Quote:

Originally Posted by meh

Today - Only:
1. Neuville
2. Rovanperä +9.5
3. Tänak +10.5 (puncture, + slow down because Lappi)
4. Breen +21.7 (puncture, + slow down because Lappi)
5. Evans +443

The usual Neuville comeback. At least here he had an excuse for his poor Friday with sickness and a missed test day.

But he really does need to get his set-up right in testing though. Every rally he struggles with car on day 1 and is put on the back foot.
11th February 2023, 17:18
AMSS

Quote:

Originally Posted by becher

Thought the same, instead of just losing the studs, when the studs go they damage the tyre which then leads to the failiures.

The studs actually do come off on Pirellis as well as Michelins in many cases. Michelins have a lot stiffer carcass which allows to run on significantly lower cold pressure, this helps give some more lifetime to the tires/keeping the studs intact.
In the conditions seen today with temperatures below zero and frozen gravel it`s the worst possible scenario for any tire. I think this is just a case which has never been seen in testing with long loops where the tire is never allowed to cool down and therefore overheats causing the problems, I am in no way a fan off Pirelli in fact quit the opposite but the combination seen today with the new heavy and powerful rally 1 cars the conditions and the high speeds must be the reason to these failures. Something that is really hard to anticipate.
11th February 2023, 17:19
becher

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

The usual Neuville comeback. At least here he had an excuse for his poor Friday with sickness and a missed test day.

But he really does need to get his set-up right in testing though. Every rally he struggles with car on day 1 and is put on the back foot.

Yesterdays pace was as much a reflection of his road position than anything else.
11th February 2023, 17:20
Fast Eddie WRC

Quote:

Originally Posted by becher

Thought the same, instead of just losing the studs, when the studs go they damage the tyre which then leads to the failiures.

So proving that its Michelin who know what they're doing...
11th February 2023, 17:23
cali

Quote:

Originally Posted by becher

Yesterdays pace was as much a reflection of his road position than anything else.

Yes, he did well on Friday and was not much behind from Kalle. He has been driving well throughout the rally.

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk
11th February 2023, 17:28
bwallace

do you remember 2019 condition in south sweden ? there was much warmer than today and no one tyres lost protector like pirelli got today...
11th February 2023, 17:28
Fast Eddie WRC

Quote:

Originally Posted by becher

Yesterdays pace was as much a reflection of his road position than anything else.

Rovanpera opened the road all day and drove the afternoon in the ruts of the smaller cars.... and was still faster.

Neuville needs to be taking time in these situations if he's ever to get the title.
11th February 2023, 17:40
AMSS

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwallace

do you remember 2019 condition in south sweden ? there was much warmer than today and no one tyres lost protector like pirelli got today...

Exactly what I wrote, frozen gravel is the worst, soft gravel/warmer snowy conditions is a lot easier for the studded tires
11th February 2023, 17:42
mknight

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwallace

do you remember 2019 condition in south sweden ? there was much warmer than today and no one tyres lost protector like pirelli got today...

Quite a lot of differences in the tires favor:
-slush/water that both cool tires down and reduce grip
- twisty stages with crests/jumps, much lower speeds
- quite a bit lighter cars
-120 less horspower
11th February 2023, 17:44
bwallace

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMSS

Exactly what I wrote, frozen gravel is the worst, soft gravel/warmer snowy conditions is a lot easier for the studded tires

2020 was frozen gravel and i remeber that no one michelin tyre got some like today pireli...
11th February 2023, 17:49
bwallace

Quote:

Originally Posted by mknight

Quite a lot of differences in the tires favor:
-slush/water that both cool tires down and reduce grip
- twisty stages with crests/jumps, much lower speeds
- quite a bit lighter cars
-120 less horspower

not much love if we compare 2020 average speed is even higher than 2022 rally....
11th February 2023, 17:52
mknight

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwallace

2020 was frozen gravel and i remeber that no one michelin tyre got some like today pireli...

In 2020 they added extra tire allowance and extra tire changing zones as precaution, as well as moving second passes to a different day.

And off course lighter and less powerful cars.
11th February 2023, 17:54
hari

Some pictures from Saturday: https://www.ir7.at/content/fotos_bes...eden_2023.html

https://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2023/sweden4/1.jpg https://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2023/sweden4/2.jpg https://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2023/sweden4/3.jpg https://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2023/sweden4/4.jpg https://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2023/sweden4/7.jpg https://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2023/sweden4/9.jpg
11th February 2023, 17:54
bwallace

yeah and in 2023 when have not so warm weather much more snow and bit longer rally with more straight which allow tyre cool down... and more tyre off than before...
11th February 2023, 17:56
becher

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

So proving that its Michelin who know what they're doing...

Thats a senseless conclusion based on a mere theory.
11th February 2023, 17:57
Rallyper

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tauri_J

https://fb.watch/iDzcpFDQao/

Lucky escape by Breen on SS12

My son Simon was at the spot. Also Huttunen had moment same corner. Had to be pushed.

Actually it was the sport of whole Saturday.
11th February 2023, 18:03
becher

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMSS

The studs actually do come off on Pirellis as well as Michelins in many cases. Michelins have a lot stiffer carcass which allows to run on significantly lower cold pressure, this helps give some more lifetime to the tires/keeping the studs intact.
In the conditions seen today with temperatures below zero and frozen gravel it`s the worst possible scenario for any tire. I think this is just a case which has never been seen in testing with long loops where the tire is never allowed to cool down and therefore overheats causing the problems, I am in no way a fan off Pirelli in fact quit the opposite but the combination seen today with the new heavy and powerful rally 1 cars the conditions and the high speeds must be the reason to these failures. Something that is really hard to anticipate.

I didn't claim Pirellis don't lose their studs, it was a mere theory what could contribute to those failures. None of us really knows what is the reason for it.
11th February 2023, 18:09
bwallace

Yeah finally they open eyes (https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrc-t...tire-failures/)
11th February 2023, 18:28
ferrial

https://www.facebook.com/groups/rall...n=mo&ref=share Picture of Tanak's tyre from Estonian rally forum.
11th February 2023, 18:31
bwallace

Quote:

Originally Posted by ferrial

https://www.facebook.com/groups/rall...n=mo&ref=share Picture of Tanak's tyre from Estonian rally forum.

it is insane the protector just take off all studs in the tyre look fine...
11th February 2023, 18:33
EstWRC

Sudrallye video https://youtu.be/n1OvyiX_RKs
11th February 2023, 18:34
TypeR

but look at the difference between Tanak's and Breen's tyres..
One delaminated only on the ,,rolling/touching side'', another like a snake.. all together(sides and rollong side)

https://www.upload.ee/image/14924872...211_214334.jpg
11th February 2023, 18:41
Oliverk

1 Attachment(s)

https://i.imgur.com/8Kx7G46.png
11th February 2023, 18:50
denkimi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

Rovanpera opened the road all day and drove the afternoon in the ruts of the smaller cars.... and was still faster.

Neuville needs to be taking time in these situations if he's ever to get the title.

But neuville drives the crap hyundai while rovanpera driver the superior toyota.

Or so that is what some want us to believe
11th February 2023, 19:14
EstWRC

Rally Sweden 2023

I said today I have praised Kalle but today I’m a bit critical

Honestly I expected more of him today and seems he has still some learning to do how to better preserve the tires

Well he even says it himself https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/rovan...-use-of-tires/
11th February 2023, 19:22
bwallace

1 Attachment(s)

Attachment 2384
This is from 2021 so they prepared for lower temperature it's not something new today that wasn't so cold...
11th February 2023, 19:27
drive

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwallace

Attachment 2384
This is from 2021 so they prepared for lower temperature it's not something new today that wasn't so cold...

of course its not about minus temp, its about speed/pressure tyres were taking... Top 3 drivers - same tyre fault.... clear those 3 have reached the tyre limit .... so loads of data for the next year, in testing you cant reach those loads
11th February 2023, 19:31
Eli

I heard Thierry saying this yesterday: SS6 @RallySweden ��

⏱️ 6:40.8 - 4th fastest so far

"It's not possible to drive like this. I have understeer in every corner, I'm at full-lock in sixth gear."

and I was wondering, does the car have 6th gear and they (Hyundai or the FIA in their regulations) didn't tell us or did Thierry forget he doesn't have 6th gear or that i20 actually has 6th gear and it was a slip of the tongue by Neuville?
11th February 2023, 19:32
Tauri_J

All Rally1 cars have 5 speed boxes
11th February 2023, 19:33
Eli

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tauri_J

All Rally1 cars have 5 speed boxes

I'm aware, that's why I found his comment odd.
11th February 2023, 19:35
focus206

Good day by Neuville and Tanak. Kalle not as fast as I expected, but I still think he'll get the podium.
Excluding issues, I don't see Breen beating Tanak tomorrow. Rather, he has a 15 seconds lead over Neuville and Rovanpera who will push, so Craig must deliver.
Evans still quite lost...
11th February 2023, 19:51
Sergiow

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tauri_J

https://fb.watch/iDzcpFDQao/

Lucky escape by Breen on SS12

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-sUfvWt5c0&t=550s

Here is the complete video of the same spot. Maybe one of the best fan video tapes ever made, it contains everything you love about rally:
- one hell of a (corner) spot
- extremely helpful and inventive crowd when in need
- only 1 filmer ( still shame on the Monte crowd in that frozen corner spot)
- all competitors freed and could continue
- attentive and colloborative marshals
- some very lucky escapees like Breen
11th February 2023, 19:56
bwallace

Quote:

Originally Posted by drive

of course its not about minus temp, its about speed/pressure tyres were taking... Top 3 drivers - same tyre fault.... clear those 3 have reached the tyre limit .... so loads of data for the next year, in testing you cant reach those loads

i think they at test they push as hell as they do in proper rally so how they f.ucking test the car or you want to say they testing all in rally ? just insane how tyres blow with pirreli supply and before entering to top lvl they had a test for tyres...
11th February 2023, 19:57
HarriK

Quote:

Originally Posted by TypeR

Lappi still sitting in a car like a queen.. Go out and help to showel ffs..

Seriously?
No way out of drivers door. He trusted that we do the job because he realised that he know all of us and we will do our best and he was ready for every try out of snow bank.
Yes I was there.

Lähetetty minun AC2003 laitteesta Tapatalkilla
11th February 2023, 20:17
dimviii

PIRELLI ISSUES ROBUST DEFENSE OF TIRE ISSUES
RALLY ACTIVITY MANAGER TERENZIO TESTONI SAID TIRE PRESSURES THAT WERE TOO LOW WERE A FACTOR

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/pirel...f-tire-issues/
11th February 2023, 20:20
TypeR

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarriK

Seriously?
No way out of drivers door. He trusted that we do the job because he realised that he know all of us and we will do our best and he was ready for every try out of snow bank.
Yes I was there.

Lähetetty minun AC2003 laitteesta Tapatalkilla

Seriously, yes.
7+min is enough time to realise to get out and do something, but let it be.
Nothing surprising and like expected.. all the blame is on teams/drivers.. (not shitty tyres.)
Why should they use low pressures if the stages are sooo fast + Hyundai is so much faster anyway(on straights).
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/pirel...f-tire-issues/
11th February 2023, 20:23
bwallace

Quote:

Originally Posted by dimviii

PIRELLI ISSUES ROBUST DEFENSE OF TIRE ISSUES
RALLY ACTIVITY MANAGER TERENZIO TESTONI SAID TIRE PRESSURES THAT WERE TOO LOW WERE A FACTOR

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/pirel...f-tire-issues/

next step will be tyre pressures was to hight...

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