Why keep Latvala and Meeke, when you have Breen and Mikkelsen available? I wouldn’t keep both of then at least as there are options available. Also Paddon as an outside betQuote:
Originally Posted by ggg377
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Why keep Latvala and Meeke, when you have Breen and Mikkelsen available? I wouldn’t keep both of then at least as there are options available. Also Paddon as an outside betQuote:
Originally Posted by ggg377
If Tanak goes it would be brilliant move to get Paddon and sack Meeke. Latvala still an assett for Toyota.
And why not Mikkelsen as well or Evans. Kalle probably doing only a few rounds.
Tanak & Neuville havent been in the same team before though. And as the old saying goes, the first driver you have to beat is your team-mate...Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
Would it? It may or may not work, i think it's a bit strong to say it would be a 'brilliant move'Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Meeke still has more points than Latvala despite Catalunya too.
Mikkelsen I would quite like to see in the Toyota. If they really are losing Tanak I think they will need one new driver for next year in addition to Rovanpera. If they can't get Ogier or Neuville then Mikkelsen would be a good choice.
and Marcus Grönholm has given his opinion:
https://www.is.fi/ralli/art-2000006289675.html?ref=rss
(in Finnish so ...)
Because most of these free agents were available last year when they had to fill Lappi's spot. Mäkinen said just before the Catalunya rally he would prefer to continue with the same trio. Unless they really do snag Ogier (according to Belgian publication Rtbf Ogier isn't ruling it out) I don't see them changing the lineup much as Mäkinen clearly values Meeke and Latvala over the other drivers on the market. At least M-Sport, Hyundai and Citroen keep Paddon, Breen and Ostberg on the sidelines. Toyota has done no such thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by COD
Kalle isn't only doing a few rounds, he's doing a full season in the Yaris.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Sounds like Latvala is more at risk than Meeke by all accounts, he's had a 3yr spell with the team now and has gone backwards. He has had the same problems for the last two years - starts the first half of the year terribly and his confidence gets shattered when his team mates are generally faster than him. He also gets his setups wrong (or doesnt have a good feeling) more than his team mates, which is a reason Makinen tears his hair out.
However Tanak leaving could easily see Latvala kept on now. Either way I hope he can remain in the WRC in some form regardless, and it's hard to say for sure that any other driver currently outside the top class like Breen/Paddon/Ostberg etc, are definitely better than Jari and Kris anyway.
Running Rovanpera full season is only a good idea if he is in 4th/non-nominated car. Here I completely agree with C.Clark, there is no point in putting any pressure on him on having to finish rallies.
This is an important separation, Evans and Mikkelsen are as good or better choice than Latvala/Meeke for team points. A look on the standings with them ahead with 3 less rallies is all that is needed.Quote:
...it's hard to say for sure that any other driver currently outside the top class like Breen/Paddon/Ostberg etc, are definitely better than Jari and Kris anyway.
Østberg/Been/Paddon in about that order are not clearly better than Latvala/Meeke and are a level below Evans/Mikkelsen as things stand right now. Paddon can increase his status massively in Australia though and has a perfect road position to do it.
I dont know the extra costs involved with running a 4th car instead of just 3, but if Toyota aren't going to be paying a huge salary to keep Tanak/pay Ogier, they could have extra budget needed to run 4cars and sign someone like Mikkelsen (who will be happy to drive for a relatively small salary in WRC terms vs paying for a seat at Msport - which seems to be his only other option).
Latvala, Meeke and Mikkelsen would be a nice 3 car team given what's left available, and then you can run Kalle for a full season pressure free in a 4th car. Don't know what Tanak will have been demanding, but I'm sure it'll have been anywhere between €5-10m a year, which is a lot.
I highly doubt Paddon will start in Australia for this reason: https://www.hyundai.co.nz/community/hayden-paddonQuote:
Originally Posted by mknight
From what I understand he has a lot of business ties to Hyundai, to the point where even his Ford WRC has a banner "HNZ". I would be very suprised if Hyundai allows him to steal the manufacturer's points needed for the title.
Reading comments from different forums and media last couple of days, it looks quite clear that someone has machined shitstorm against TMR, Tommi, Kaj and others. Some doubts if it was really deserved? Maybe it is appealing to first machine shitstorm in media and then try to hijack WRC business from TMR. Probably most of the mentioned issues are quite natural in this area and no one has said that running WRC team successfully is like a walk in the park. With salary levels in Finland and Estonia, you can't meet WRC team salaries from central Europe/UK, costs needs to be kept low. Neither is the Finland/Estonia as a location or cultural environment appealing to keep foreign resources in a team for a longer period. Change in personnel is typical especially in new and remote organizations. It would be weird e.g. if Citroen would have more resource transition than TMR. What comes to Tommi and Kaj, they have been that sort of typical steady Finnish persons forever and probably even improved from HR and PR skills during the TMR period. We need to remember that Tommi's background is farmer from central Finland, not CEO of HR consultancy agency. His achievements in TMR are quite decent so far.
Part of the WRC's popularity in the past was that teammates were competing against each other. Now people are blaming Tommi keeping the team internal competition open unlike other teams. Is "only 1 driver per team" F1 type of competition what we really want to see in WRC? Tommi's philosophy might have been that drivers will sort their order by driving and after couple of rallies it is clear and from then on nro 1 driver gets more attention than others. Would be alarming to hear if TMR has not given Tanak attention he has wanted/deserved. What comes to team aspect, Tommi has said in media that Tanak is nro 1 but has he ever restricted Tanak's driving because of Latvala or Meeke crashing, probably not. Letting 2nd or 3rd driver to drive freely their own best speed does not meant that he would allow or encourage them to crash constantly. Tommi is maybe even too supportive for underperforming drivers, unlike Adamo. In this case Tommi is following more known HR theories than Adamo. Same comes to loyalty that Japanese and Toyota also respects.
What comes to lot spoken leaving of Lappi, probably no one restricted him to show that he could be nro 1 driver in Toyota. nro 3 does not naturally get as big attention and salary as nro 1. At the state of his career probably Lappi got better deal from Citroen and same time TMR/TGR noticed that Lappi will not instantly become new Ogier and TMR has therefore valued Meeke's driving/engineering/PR skills to be more needed asset for them atm.
Also very hard to see why TMR would not like to continue commitment and co-operation with MMM and Tanak. Furthermore if TMR would not have mutual respect towards Estonian personnel, half of the TMR would not be Estonian as currently. For sure TMR will be very disappointed in case if Tanak is leaving. Also what comes to Japanese culture, leaving from Japanese brand to Korean might be not looked well compared e.g. moving from Japanese team to other Japanese team.
Spanish media should be taken with pinch of salt but Pipo Lopez is writing that Tänak has tested the Hyundai and he liked it.
Agree 100%Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Well written!
I think he could start and drive normally and then if needed follow Hyundai team orders on second loop on Sunday.Quote:
Originally Posted by ggg377
I find it funny that Tanak is supposedly crying about not being #1 in Toyota (he clearly is), and teammates taking pts in power stages from him etc etc, to then go and join Hyundai where for sure he will have equal status with Neuville - who is a near equal to him in current driver ability (certainly more so than Meeke and Latvala).
That tells me that surely this hasn't been a big factor at all in Tanak's reasoning for leaving Toyota.
Meeke pushed in Portugal under orders from Tommi, and in Finland Meeke and Latvala were pushing before both made mistakes, but next season Tanak will have Neuville breathing up his ass on most events (or ahead of him).
Money + car reliability + working/personal relationship with Tommi will by why he has left. Maybe throw in the R5 project with MM too.
Didn't quite get why salary levels are a topic but the team part in Estonia is obviously to have lower salaries. With that in mind I can't see how average salary levels for Finnish and Estonian parts together can be much higher than in UK(Msport),"West" Germany (Hyundai) or France.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy J
Anyway the very high TMR profit shows that there certainly is room to use more money.
About the "it's all a conspiracy"...
The repeating reliability issues are a hard fact for last 3 years.
Just saying that the stories about people leaving, bad atmosphere at the team, bad leadership and issues with the car reliability didn't come overnight with the news of Tänak's alledged deal with Hyundai, I've heard this stuff all along from 2017.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy J
exactly, ive heard it too since 17.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
and none of us here know what exactly are the reasons why Ott is leaving.
Well, maybe some guys know but they wont write about it here.
dont remember where i read it,but Latvala is at 4,5 m at Toyota.Dont know if its valiable the number though.Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggg377
What on earth are you on about? Hyundai New Zealand, is his biggest supporter and wishes him all the best...hence that private (M-Sport) Fiesta has a HNZ logo, was supposed to run in Finland, ran in GB and will run in Australia. Hyundai Motorsport on the otherhand ditched him quite badly. Only way he wouldn`t start the event would probably be a min. 50% season in Hyundai 2020.
Just a small correction: Tommi's background is being a four-time world rally champ. Last time he truly was a farmer we had Soviet Union and Germany was split into two different countries.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy J
Don't know if it's 4,5M or something else, but it could be much higher than what his results from 2018 and 2019 would suggest. The deal was made in Dec 2016 and was for 2+1 years. So his 2019 base salary level was already set back then, based on the VW years.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Well, that´s about my opinion too...Quote:
Originally Posted by pantealex
At least we read it on this forum...Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Buddar had said after Ogier's problems on Friday that all hope was not lost for Østberg in Australia, if there was still hope after Sunday i don't knowQuote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Well i don't think it's as bad as you guys think. Otherwise they wouldn't have had all this success - winning their 2nd ever rally, winning the constructors title in their 2nd season, the drivers title in their 3rd...Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
Would love to see how bad the atmosphere has been at Hyundai and Citroen in those few years, where drivers have left/been sacked/ benched/ used the smallprint in their contracts to remain in the team, managers have lost their jobs, engineers and technical directors have been replaced etc, and neither team has won anything of note.
So for all the criticism Tommi gets, it's only fair to point out the superb job he has also done. A team boss isn't paid to make people like him - Adamo will tell you that. But the people at Toyota clearly respect Tommi otherwise the team success wouldn't be possible. Tanak is clearly difficult/ demanding to work with as well, but between them Ott and Tommi have made it work for the last two years.
It is not like Makinen and Toyoda won't have tried their best to keep Tanak, losing him is a huge loss. So I get that questions have to be asked of Tommi and how this has happened, but Toyoda and Makinen are on the same page. Whatever Tanak has issues with or has demanded, hasn't been solved by speaking with Toyoda and the Japanese people. If Ott's mind has been set on going, sometimes it's not possible to change peoples mind no matter what.
Remember when tommi said he didn't need ogier because he already had latvala?Quote:
Originally Posted by Allez Andruet
Lol.
I didnt know its public info. I have heard it but only once or twice "confidentially", so i dismissed it as speculation.Quote:
Originally Posted by br21
tomorrow at Marca would be Tanaks interview
https://twitter.com/NachoVillarin/st...72203507974144
It is true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Indreq
What if. What if Tänak is actually in for the challenge? He did achieve what he desired in Toyota. What if he actually likes developing cars and facing major obstacles. Maybe he wants to see/show that he is the best in world not just because of the car (Toyota) like some people keep telling. Maybe he wants to work and compare himself with Loeb or so-called enemy, Neuville? Maybe he wants to push himself more, maybe it got boring in TGR?Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
Rarely there is only 1 reason, but keep these things in mind. Money is not everything that keeps us going.
Exactly, and if that's the case it's not Tommi's fault for not being able to retain him. But it seems like the current narrative is Tanak is leaving because of Tommi and that's where all the Tommi bashing is coming from. Tommi has his own ways that are different, but he isn't a fool and has already had big success as team boss only 3yrs in.Quote:
Originally Posted by dnb
We just don't know for sure until more is said by either of them. It could be Tanak that wants a new challenge/ wants to win a title with another manufacturer/ wants a lot more money on offer at Hyundai/ or genuinely can't work with Makinen anymore. Or a lot of smaller issues adding up.
Honestly, the complaints may be old but the way they’re being revelead makes one wonder if they’re not exaggerated. The whole thing is sounding like a business dispute rather than a sport issue; that’s sad, having in mind what Makinen and Tanak managed to achieve together: taking Toyota and the Yaris to a top winning level. Hats off to both!Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
I think the reason there is so much searching for reasons Tanak is moving, is that it is very rare in Motorsport to find a top driver willingly leave behind what is considered to be the fastest car to move to a challenger. Whatever his reasons for jumping ship, it is a strange time to do it but clearly there is something that has made him go that way, and in all likelihood we will probably never know 100% the real reasons.
Also I would find it very surprising if he really has tested the Hyundai already as a company like Toyota just wouldn’t allow that under normal circumstances.
I think you all are reading between lines and coming up with theories and conspiracy when the matter is a lot simpler.
I know what happened, Adamo invited Tanak for a dinner and cook pasta. It was the best pasta Tanak ever ate, then Adamo said "if you drive for Hyundai, I will cook for you".
The rest is history as they say.
Not his wife, but girl friend....Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Also the bashing of Mia is a little crazy to be honest. She is not the only one running the show. They've achieved a lot so far. Imagine if Toyota was still struggling to get a grip. It would be a boring season...Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy J
Yes they have achieved a lot, but Tänak leaving them now (if it happens) to a team that doesn't have clearly better car package is a huge fail.
Even more so if they will end up without any of the top 3 drivers.
Either way it will be an interesting season. Then, Tänak can show whether his speed is due to the car as everyone claims, or if he can manage it in the i20 too.
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