Edit: Double post by accident.Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
Printable View
Edit: Double post by accident.Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
What a WASTE of survey! This was ChatGPT made, no doubt on that
WHY all the repetitive useless questions? What.... "WRC should be unique because it takes place on a variety of surfaces"
...Like.... WHAT ARE THEY TALKING ABOUT???? Jeezzz haha
Also, those questions about top drivers personalities and inspirational.. whatever.. thats so weird. Of course its more interesting to listen to Oliver Solberg, Mads, Latvala, Lukyanuk, Craig talking. They are "more interesting" than three words Ott or weird humor Kalle. But thats fine. The focus is not HOW COOL they are... its who have the biggest balls to drive faster. Weird questions IMO. Like, they are asking tik tok kids questions for grown mens like we. WE watch Rally. Tik Tok kids will NOT WATCH rally. They will only see a clip of a rally crash and make a weird face "REACTING TO RALLY CRASHES"... f* off...
Lappis was testing the new Hankook tires for 2025? The general comments on Formula E about them are not that good.
If we get rally2s for 2025 is going to be a shame if we dont get tire war :(
The deal is done. Hankook will be.
Bring back roadside repairs, go to Rally 2s, give each rally its character back, allow private firms to build cars were my comments in a nutshell.
Roadside reparations can easily be regulated. Areas can be prepared. Spares can be filtered. Mechanics can be regulated. etz. etz. Should be right direction of future WRC.Quote:
Originally Posted by macebig
Exactly. It's very easy to use a local dealership, a fuel station from a sponsor or something else to set up a service zone that is unique and different while opening up to new crowds. Service Park as it currently is just makes WRC seem like circuit racing.
It's 2024, not 1994. Think of the risk assessments, permissions, personnel, portaloos, barriers involved. A fuel station does not want crowds of people stood watching crews working on their cars - who won't be customers, and neither does the championship want that image. Be realistic, not, passive permissive: "It's very easy".Quote:
Originally Posted by macebig
I think you're massively underestimating the amount of space required for this......Quote:
Originally Posted by macebig
On the opposite. So many areas can be used. Environmental regulation to be followed of course. But nothing hard to execute.Quote:
Originally Posted by rallyfiend
How do you think refuel services are currently arranged? This is easier and can be managed at same spot (except from 50 m away) and not all cars arrive at the same time.
Refuels don't exactly pull in the crowds, take much time per car nor do they need team vehicles and bodies. If the whole point is to draw in the crowds with longer than 3 minute repair windows, you will need a large space. If that is over thinking it, then there is nothing being wished for that doesn't already happen.
It may be hard to believe but the bodyshell of today's Fabia is wider than that of C4 which was used for the WRC car 15 years ago and it's not even much shorter. It's way bigger than the first generation used for Fabia WRC, not speaking about even smaller Peugeot 206. The cars grow bigger in time. The width is the only dimension which plays a signifficant role in a rallycar safety BUT it is irrelevant for the Rally1 cars which don't use stock bodyshells.Quote:
Originally Posted by skarderud
How? Good luck findinfg areas for roadside repair in 2024 traffic. Sorry but that may be possible in deserted areas of Sweden but absolutely impossible in many other WRC countries.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
"Out of the different eras of WRC cars, what do you think were the most impressive to watch?"
How am I supposed to answer this? I have only watched one era that I could name, and I can't skip or say "don't know".
Anyone who is against the idea of Rally2+, try to remember how superior even the current Rally2 car is compared to the WRC cars of 20 years ago.
This shows some of the improvements in performance, braking and cornering as well as being lighter, safer, more efficient and cheaper.
https://youtu.be/dzQr2CEBXgY?si=UKjztrUQTfMRuQ7n
Then imagine Rally2+ with even more power and bigger aero...
Rally2+ (in version current Rally2 cars with bigger restrictor and added aero) are nonsense. If they want something between Rally1 and Rally2, it should be with different regulations (of course can be based with lot of things on current Rally2)...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
For me it looks like this survey was generated by AI...Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
Really cool video! Thanks for sharing it mate!Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Tho Im not sure Im onboard with this Rally2+ idea some of you fellas here keep talking about.
I mean, I dont actually KNOW how that would work. Cuz it gotte be CHEAP.... AND it gotte be 'quick' to "change back" to normal Rally2.
Like... If its just a matter of having a wider air intake on the engine ("One piece") and a new bigger rear wing ("One piece"), than fine. Cuz that would be relatvely simple and cheap for someone on a tighter budget like Kajetan or Chris Ingram to do (upgrade to R2+) and compete in a WRC round, but then they can easily change back to a normal Rally2 to compete at the national levels they usually compete. If its NOT THIS EASY to go form Rally2 to R2+ then to return from R2+ to Rally2, then its not the beeeeest ideia IMO.
OF COURSE there would be WAY MORE entries in WRC. Richier or sponsored guys could do it. Imagine Monte Carlo 2025 with Nasser Al Athya, Loeb, CARLOS SAINZ, Paddon... haha These fellas can find the budget to modified a Rally2 to R2+ and never bother that "Oh, cant race them on my national championship now".
U'know? am I thinking about this in the right way?
It's not so much the tech specs I'm against but the short-sightedness and the logic that it'll cure all of life's problems that I dislike. Even if you call your package Rally1, privateers in the 'main class' will still be undesired by those at the top, it'll still be difficult to afford, it won't attract manufacturers, it's still very little road-relevancy, it'll still be seen as historic motoring in 2030... etc etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Good watch though thanks.
you could limit it to wrc1 cars. and limit it to 1 van and 2 technicians per competitor.Quote:
Originally Posted by rallyfiend
and even when you allow it for everyone, remember that there will ever only be a few vans at the same place in the same time, due to the limited time and the starting time differences.
whatever the solution, the lack of service these days ruins a lot of great fights. a small issues nowadays can create great problems because some small part is not available.
1 van and 2 technicians per competitor is same like now with TFZ, and you can see how difficult for organisers is to manage it. And allow "competition" of service wans to travel between stages like in the past is nonsense...Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
I am against the Rally2+ for absolutely different reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
1) It must make Rally2 cars more expensive for the customers, there is no other option.
2) It must make either Rally2 cars less reliable or even more expensive because they were designed for the power they have now, not for what they would have with larger restrictors.
3) It would make national and regional rallying more expensive for the reasons listed above.
4) It would not bring a miracle drug for the WRC. It will make 1-2 seasons more interesting before the top 1-2 teams start to dominate again but all the cons for the national and regional competition will stay.
5) The idea that all Rally2 producers would automatically join the WRC is naive and more likely than not it won't happen.
The thing is that R5/Rally2 has been an exceptionally successful formula for national and regional rallying and I am afraid of what intoduction of them to the top WRC level would cause not for the WRC, but for the other levels of rallying.
Rally2+ is nonsense. It would cost a lot to upgrade the whole car. Larger restrictors and better aero will required better suspensions that will require stronger gearboxes, that will require more stuff... Its going to get expensive and no one would jump in because these modified cars would not be allowed to race in national championship.... And Msport would complain that just 2 guys bought these cars because they are still expensive.
Rally2 for top class in my opinion. And dont worry, the guy who works at the local restaurant will not buy a rally2 yaris and starting beating the guys that race wrc, wrc2, erc, national series... The talent is the "something more than just buying rally2 car"
If these cars were run by privateers who did their own preparation in their own garages then you might be right.Quote:
Originally Posted by fiscorpun
Nobody anywhere near the top of the sport does that these days. All the leading cars are prepared by businesses who will charge drivers whatever they think they can to run a car on an event for them. These outfits often have different cars for tar and gravel to save the time & cost of swapping from one spec to another. There's no way they'd be converting Rally2+ to Rally2 and back again if that involved a load of body & mechanical parts. If Kajetanowicz or Ingram wants a car for WRC, ERC or a National event they shop around and see what deals are on. They don't necessarily use the same car on different events - even if it comes from the same preparation outfit (and don't let the car registration number fool you - plates are easier to swap than any other parts!). It's all down to whether the vinyl wrap is easier/cheaper to change than the mechanicals.
Yes. Anyway this very idea of swapping the parts for WRC and national rallying failed miserably already with RRC/WRC and there is no reason why it shall work now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Boyd
On a tangent inspired by that... We hear the term "local heroes" in threads like this. But how much does being local count for? Has a local driver done the stages in (say) the Central European Rally before, do they have better knowledge than WRC drivers with all their recce and study of previous onboards and so on?Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Boyd
Once you get beyond "Scandi-Baltic drivers are more familiar with snow", how much does being local count for in rally driving?
"Roadside" does not litterally mean just beside heavy traffic. It means of course areas you can put a reasonable cars out of traffic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
However I think we´ve happened to avoid the main reason; remote services may attract more spectators even out of stages, making WRC back to the roots again.
In this thread, people have talked about restrictors and aero and powertrains (especially clever diffs), and how they affect "spectacularness".
But I wonder, is suspension a bigger factor? Group B cars had a lot of power, but they also bounced around on uneven ground. It seems to me (not an expert) that modern suspension is so good it just eats the bumps and makes a lot of rally stages look not so different from circuit racing as the car goes between corners.
Maybe I missed your earlier quotes, but can you develope why it is nonsense?Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
Edit: read it above.
Thank you for the well-reasoned argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
I don't know much about rallying, but I do know the FIA. It is entirely their style to ditch the top category, try to pretend that they're not downgrading it by beefing up WRC2, and spoil the rest of rallying. If they even think about the rest of rallying, they won't see it as their problem.
i think the problem is just how we call such new cars...
i'm totally against the rally2 solution. we already have a similar thing that's erc and it's not the dreamland people see for the top tier. there's the need of a top tier, clearly.
so keep the rally1 name and make a reg that's a step (backe if you want, but who cares?) toward wrc spec style, that's proven a good balance. it can be cost capped at half a current rally 1 , and that's still nearly 2x a rally2, which mean space for sensing the difference between the 2, but way more affordardable if costs is the problem (which i don't buy, btw).
still, thing is: how a top tier car should be? engine-wise (power source) and maybe suspension/tyre also, more than aero/restrictor.
Decades ago when WRGB was known as the RAC Rally and the stages were secret with no recce or notes it was a very big deal. The leading British crews would frequently finish in the top 5 overall, even if they rarely won. Top Finnish & Swedish drivers would enter the British Championship to get experience of the stages that would be used at the end of the year on the RAC Rally to ensure they had the best chance of winning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morte66
These days, I doubt it means much apart from, as you say Scandinavian & Baltic area drivers being better able to judge tyre selection and grip on snow than WRC novices from other parts of the world. French drivers with experience of winter alpine conditions may have a similar advantage on the Monte but once a driver has had a couple of seasons in WRC they should have learned all they need to know and if they are any good the "local hero" should be well behind.
So I've done the famous survey and unfortunately even the survey itself gave me a negative impression. First of all it was quite "weak", having completed several such surveys for F1, WEC and MotoGP in the past, the WRC survey felt cheap and superficial. Also for the other categories some questions were more open, for example instead of some pre defined phrases like "WRC should be exciting because this and that" you could choose 5 keywords that define the series out of like 30 options.
Overall I felt that this survey is not being used as a tool to learn the audience and what they want and instead someone already has a plan and has already made a decision and this survey will be used to justify whatever that decision is.
What follows is speculation on my part but I think the rumors of Rally2 in 2025 and Rally2+ in 2026 are true. There were some people saying on twitter that the plan for 2024 was to reduce costs by reducing fly away events and then teams would run 4 cars each. I think that might have been the last attempt to save Rally1 as it is and it failed because probably one team couldn't do it. Now they are in panic mode and the 2025 season with Rally2 will be a knee jerk reaction. I think this is a mistake and will ruin Rally2 in the long run. Probably the best solution would have been Rally1- (simpler, less expensive cars between current Rally1 and Rally2) but that needed to be planned out in advance and they failed to do that.
How do you create areas out of traffic in let's say Rallye Monte Carlo where everyone has to use the very same mountain narrow roads because there are no alternative routes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
You can ask anyone who actually organizes rallies and I think he would send you to hell with your idea, sorry.
Current suspension level is a result of decades of development and it's impossible to go back in time. You simply can't put dampers worse than on an average 2024 stock car to a Rally1. It's same as if you asked them to use 1980' tyres. Besides that the suspension is major safety factor. Bouncing cars are dangerous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morte66
It was definitely NOT generated by AI, instead by someone who already took a decision and need a "people's justification" for something they want to announce and ratify.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
The talk about a cheaper Rally1 gets me thinking. In what way would cheaper Rally1 help the championship? New manufacturers won't join because of that, more privateers is questionable at best as Rally2 is such a attractive market for them. Current manufacturers running more cars? Maybe.
What cheaper Rally1 car even mean?
Removing the hybrid? Think of the 17-21 cars, even those were more expensive than what privateers could afford. Just go for Rally2, its going to be fun. We talked here, the stories are the hooking part. The cars are not THAT espetacular? No, but we will get used and the entries will make up for it. We will have all the names in one class, finally. Tierry, Sebs, Oli, Evans, Paddon, Lappi, Meeke, Ingram, Lukyanuk, Nasser... It is going to be a fun watch! How can we not agree with that
Yes, keep dreaming that Thierry, Ott, Kalle would run the same spec cars as other 'locals' or say Ingram etc... 😀 still will be top 5-7 drivers and the rest....
Use road car based engines, use cheaper material for body panel, for suspension and stuff use only parts that everybody can buy instead of purpose built parts... it's not that hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by lmmjvss